tXtenfioo, might snap, and be rendered more difficult to biin£ together than the rope of faud divided in a dozen places. Let us look to the policy of the former Congress. Did they ever entertain an idea of taking on themselves the State debts ? Did they ever pledge the faith of the continent to aflame them ? Nay—Did they, when they applied to the reipe£live States for the power of preserving the Union, I mean the five per cent, ever dream of dilcharging those debts, or did any of th£ States require it ? The constitution did not contemplate it ; for that provides for the debts of the Union only, and many of the State debts are not of a continental nature, and ought not to be a continental -charge ; of this kind, I hold the Penobfcot expedition trom Mas sachusetts, and the fitting out the (hip South-Carolina by that State. If States choole to run into those balloon exploits on their own ac count, their neignbors ought not to pay tor it. The intention of the present fyilero I imagine is to introduce all those charges. Policy, he said, was against the atrumption. Many ot the States have material objections, and will view the interterence with a jaundiced eye ; and uotwithftauding what gentlemen so fre quently ridicule ot monsters and hydras, jealoufits will arise, and peihaps from the nature of republican governments it is necessary they (hould. I think, at least, that there will be a just founda tion for fhem in the present inftance —for, will the citizen who has alread) paid his proportion of the debt to his State, content edly fee a new burthen imposed on himfelf and his poftenty—a burthen we know not when we shall be rid of—a burthen we know not the weight or amount of. Again §ir, is it policy on the fubjefl of public credit ; paper ' of whatever denomination, whether flock or not, will be atfe£led by the quantity in circulation, and will be depreciated accord ingly. Policy on every principle forbids it—policy forbids us, in the vigor of youth, to cloath ourfelvcs with all the impotence, im becility and infirmity of extreme old political age. Britain wai seventeen hundred years politically ola, dating trom Julius Caesar's invasion, before Ihe had a funded debt. The United States have scarcely attained their fourteenth political year, when they are a bout to mortgage themselves and posterity lor a funded debt ; the •one third, or perhaps the one hall ot the amount of Britain's enor mous debts at this day. Mr. Jackson observed, that the justice of the measure had as many oojetfions. The greatest plea of justice was, that the debt was of the fame nature, and contra&ed for the fame reasons and in the fainecaufe. His arguments before, he said, had proved this not to be altoge ther the cafe : butfuppofmg it was, he asked whether it was jus tice to compel the citizen who had already contributed, to pay a i'econd proportion. Gentlemen had talked much of the exertions of their States—the hardlhips they had endured—and the ravages they had sustained. He could advance, with equal confidence, that he came from the State which had fuffered the mod of any in the Union ; where there was noplace, no corner but where the British arms had been carried ; where the families had been totally driven off, and their properties had been totally destroyed ; where the inhabitants had scorned the Britifti prote£hon, and left their properties behind them ; where what the Britilh had left, the American army had taken to subsist on, and not a certificate had been given in numerous instances. Yet those citizens whose property had been thus destroyed, had cheerfully submitted to the payment of the State debt. But would it be justice, after all those lodes, and after this already voluntary contribution, to put our hands again in their pockets, and fay, you must pay the debts of MalTachufetts and South-Carolina. If those States have not done as they ought—if they have not extinguifhcd their debts, they have themselves to blame for it. Sir, in Georgia the audited debt has drawn no interest—inter est has been allowed only on a small proportion of funded debt ; for we also Mr. Chairman, must have our project of funding, un til we were convinced by experience it would not answer, and that we could not pay a regular specie interest. By this plan, fir, all those audited certificates will draw interest from the time of liquidation, which will greatly increase the debt of Georgia, and not benefit her citizens : for the late speculations, no doubt have changed the holders, and the very man who did the service or fur niftied thefupply, contented with the principal sum, will now have to contribute his pioportion towards payment of the interest of his own certificate and which he himfelf was not entitled to. By the system before us tht settlement with the States is post poned to a distant day—a day which never may arrive, and not withstanding the balance may be in favor of the State I repre.fent, the citizen may be forever bound for the intercft of this enormous debt—the debt of other States. There is another part of the Secretary's report which will ma terially injure Georgia. The proviso, that where a Hate shall have rxchangcd the securities of the continent for those of her own, no settlement shall be made until those exchanged certificates (hall be brought in and surrendered. The State of Georgia little thinking of such a day as this, altho very materially concerned, has, as it -was usual with her, burnt her exchanged certificates as they have returned to her trcafury. Is she, because those certificates have been funk and fentto oblivion, and which I wish our whole debt was, to fuffer for her honcfty, and that of her citizcns ? Sir, I will not tax the Secretary ith thedefign ; 1 will not im pute the intention to him ; but I trust that we (hall not run our lcives enormously in debt and mortgage ourfelvesand our children, to give ftope to the abilities of any minister on earth to give an opening to (hew the talents he possesses of managing taxes and the resources of the burthen he unpofes. Mr. Jackson concluded, by faying, that tohis mind and agreeably to the reasons he had given, he was convinced the aflumptionof the State debts was inexpedient, impolitic, and unjust ; and he trusted that it would not be adopted. Mr. Smith (S. C.) replied to Mr. Jackson, that he rtiould be as un billing as that gentleman to assume debts of any State incurred for balloon schemes (as they had been termed) but he did not think the Penobfcot expedition or the South-Carolina irigate came within that defenption ; the members from MafTachuflfetts could answer for the former, and a? to the latter, he could fafely fay that the State of South-Carolina fuffcred such injury to her commerce during the war, that a naval prote&ion was indifpenfibly neccffary —that other States were prote&cd by vetfels of war on continen tal establishments, while the State alluded to was unprote&ed, and her trade crippled by the enemy—that the equipment ot that vef iel had cost a much less sum than was generally believed, as but a small part of the sum demanded had been allowed by the State. He obierved, that as the union were under obligations to protefl every part, so were they also bound to contribute their propor tion of expence, incurred by any particular part tor its own de fence—thar this was language which had been much repeated dur ing the I ast, feflion, when the houfehad been called 011 to vote a large sum of money for the protection oi Georgia from the Creeks, and which under the influence of that principle, the house had a&ually done. That State could have justly complained had she been left to protest herfelf, and to incur io heavy a burden.—Mr. Smith said the opposition of gentlemen to the measure seemed to originate in an idea thatthefe weiethe private debts of the several States incurred for their own particular purposes ; the fact was just the reverse—they were as much the debts of the continent, as those which were called the continental debts—they were as much the price of independence—instead of their being State debts as sumed by the continent, they were in truth continental debts which the States had assumed when Congress were unable to pay them ; but now Congress had in its exclusive poffeflion the bell resources of the nation, and (hould all those resources be applied so the payment of a few continental creditors (and they had been frequently told that all the continental securities were in the hands of a few speculators) to the total ruin of all the State creditors, it was eafv to anticipate dangerous consequences ; indeed such would be the diflatisfadion on the part of the State creditors, that it would couiidei ably obftiuft the colli & ion oi" the national revenue. There had been no reason afligned, and he believed it was impoflible to aflign any, which could eftablffh a diflin£lion between the one and the other class ot these creditors—their claims were precifcly similar, and they ought to be provided tor on similar terms. Gentlemen were miilaken, if they thought South-Carolina had made no exertions to discharge her debt since the peace—that State had levied on her citizens every year a tax, which cjnlidermg hei losses by the war, and the devafUtions committed by the enemy, was a very considerable one, amounting to upwards ot 300,000 dollars annually for the interefl, besides a million and an half oi dollars principal paid off, making upwards of three millions ol dollars. It had been said that Great Britain was 1700 years old before (he began a funding fyflem, while the United Mates were about to adopt it at the age ot 14 ; to that he observed, that America was. nearly, if not quite, as lar advanced in political sagacity in ftci early youth as Great-Britain in her extreme old age, having the experience of Great-Britain, and of other nations during a long course of years as her guide ; and that he always thought the vigoi of youth was more equal to the support of heavy burden? than in firmity of age. He agraed with the geutleman that if the measure was a wrong one, the sentiments of one or two States should not influence their determination, but he was persuaded that on a diU cuflion of its own merits, it would be found necessary tor the u nion and tranquility of all the States. To Mr. Smith's answer, that the State debts were all on a foot ing with the debts of the Union, and that on this principle, Geor gia had received protection laftyear, and might receive more this, Mr. Jackson replied, that if Georgia had received pru:e£tion, it had not been with the vote of some members from thatStace (S. C v who supposing, as he would charitably allow, that ihe Georgians, and not M'Gillivray, were in the wrong, had withheld then voice ; that however in his opinion, the cases were not the fame : but he denied that Georgia hitherto had received the least shadow of protettion from the union, although the moll favorable report was exifling of their condutt on the table. That the cases were not similar, because in the cases of Georgia there was an invasion of the union*: whilst in the cafe of the fhi the South-Carolina which he had mentioned, thai State had don what they were not warranted in by the laws of Congress or con federation. The fitting out Ihips of war—that that State was no contented to be 011 an equality with her fillers, but aimed at a high founding fame, of poffefling vessels of wai in her own em ploy. That her# he w->uld remark, that as well in this cafe as in that of the State vessel of Massachusetts, it could not be expected that the Union should defray their expence. He would aikif any of the prize monies of those vessels had been lodged in the trea sury of the continent. He believed it h d not been the cafe, and if it had not, the States which had reaped the benefits ought to pay the charges. The gentleman had insinuated, that as Georgia had allowed no interefl or could not pay the interefl of her fundi d debt, ihe cer tainly could not have discharged much of her debt. He would put that gentleman right on this head, by assuring him, thai altho* Georgia had not specie fufficient to 6lfcharge the inteieft of her funded debt regularly, yet fhc had funk some hundred thousand dollars of her principal debt. Mr. Sedgwick said that he had not the vanity to suppose an. thing new which hecould fay would authorise him to expett the alrea dy txhaufted patience of the committee, in an exteniivt disc uHion of the vast fubjeft before them. He would however, call on the candor of the gentlemen who so strenuously opposed the propofiti ou under confederation, for, an attempt to answer some of the ar guments which had been repeatedly advanced by himfelt and the gentlemen with whom he had the honor to a£t and think on this occasion. He observed that the revolution was a common, a national cauf., lhat therefore the expeufe should be equally apportioned—thai whatever had been advanced towards the attainment of the objetfc should be fatisfied, if within the ability of the government. That if the whole could not be paid the iofs mould be fuitained in equal and just proportion : That these were the di&ates of common justice and common honesty. and universally considered as con clusively binding in the usual intercourse of men in civil society : That thus confidcring the fubjeft, he thought the States now stag gering under an unequal weight of burden, had a right to demand of this government the adoption of the proposed measure. He fur ther observed that this demand for justice would appear the more reasonable, when it was considered that the government wduld not, should the resolution be adopted, sustain any loss. For that it was infaft true, as had been repeatedly stated, that lhould the debts be aflumed, there wouid still remain, a baliance due, to every State. Bccaufe there was no State, which since the commence ment of the war had not done more than to support the expences of its own government, and all its other incidental charges. That this would be tvident, when it was remembered, that the whole with which a State, in the event could be charged, would be, the debt to be assumed, together with what had been heretofore ad vanced to it ; and on the other hand it would be entitled to a cre dit for all its advances and services in the war. In th s view of the fubjeft, which was the just one, he wished gentlemen would explain why the government should delay to put the citizens on a footing of equality ? He observed that the accounts of individual States with the Uni ted States would ultimately be fettled, or they would not : If the former, then justice would be done to all ; it the latter, the only charitable and liberal supposition would be, that the States had equally exerted themselves in their glorious struggle for freedom. He further wished gentlemen would explain to the committee and to the world, what were their intentions in regard to the State cred itors, who it had been proved were equally entitled with others to justice. He affirmed that as it refpetted some of the States, no efficient mealures, of national finance, could be carried into execu tion, and at the fame time leave the States an ability to fulfil their engagements —engagements entered into at a time when they were in poUeflion of funds which were fully adequate to the purpose, and which funds were now surrendered to this government. ERRATUM : In Mr. Ames's Jpecch, in our lajl, 5 paragraph 3 column, for 41 130,000," read 1,300,000. FRIDAY, MARCH 19. Sketch of the debate on Mr. Sherman's motion for appointing a committee to enquire into the receipts and expenditures of pub lic money during the administration of the Hon. Robert Morris late fuperintendant of Financc. Mr Gerry observed that feme how or other the House is con tinually recurring to the modes of procedure adopted by the latc Congress, who were both a legislative and executive body ; the present government is organized on quite different principles The President of the United States is the only competent author ity to take cognizance of the conduct of officers in the executive department—if we pursue the proposed plan of appointing com mittees we destroy the refponfibily of executive officers and d iveft the House of a great and cflenti.l privilege, that of impeaching our executive officers for mal-adminiflration. He concluded by faying he was in favor of the report of the Senate for the appoint ing commissioners—as placing the business in a more parliament ary and conllitutional direction. Mr. Gerry was replied to by Mr. Hartley and Mr. Fitzfimons who contended that the motion was ftrittly parliamentary as n was certainlyjult that an investigation on the part of the House of the conduit of public officers ought to precede all crimination of their conduit; this enquiry Mr. Morris has applied for and on every principle of equity, he ought to have a fair and full hearing, that if his conduit has been such as to merit approbation, he may no longer lay under any disadvantageous or injurious imputation. Mr. Jackson called tor a reading ott'ne memorial; which being read—-He objected to the appointment of a committee, he thought uunneccffary, it would cltablifh a precedent which would ?r,. -394- voJve a great variefy of difficulties ; he had no doubt of the honor and rectitude of conduct 111 the memorialist, he was ready to ac knowledge that he had rendered the country great and meruorious services—and that this was the opinion of the people in general through the United States—he was for accepting the report of the committee and thus finifh the business. Mr. Vining was in favor of the motion—and observed that the report (itappears) does not come up to the ideas of the memorialiifc —he wilhes to give particular fatisfd£tion to the members of this noufe ; he wishes the. fan£l ion of this house to the merit of his ser vices, should they on invefligation appear to deserve such a fanc tion.julHce is all he asks for,and furtly gentlemen will not deny that. Mr. Fitziimons followed Mr. Vining in a similar train of obfei vations. Mr. Bland was opposed to the motion : he thought the report was a full juflification of the condu£l of Mr. Morris ; he was op posed to appointing commiilioners, as creating an unnecessary ex pence. Mr. Madison was in favor of the motion, he offered a variety of observations on the fubjeft, and in support of the idea, that the House should possess itfelt of the fullefl information in order 10 doing juflice to the country and to public officers. Mr. Gerry defended his firft opinion, that the several branches of government should be kept separate—he was only solicitous he said that the house should not eflabhfh a precedent which would mix the several parts of the government. The memorialist re qucfts the appointment of commiflioners—and what is the ob j £tion : nothing more than the expence, which in a matter ofjul ice, ought not to be considered. Mr. Stone observed on the idea of expence, that if the business is easy to be fettled, commiflioners will not be wanted for a long lme ;if the business is intricate and difficult, a committee will be very improper—he was therefore in favor of commiflioners. Mr. Sherman said that for himfelf he was perfc£lly fatisfied ref peding the accounts of Mr. Morris ; they are certified by as good and honefl men as can poflibly be appointed—men entirely un iifluenced and uncontrouled by any perf on whatever ; but flill he thought to give full fatisfa&ion to the memorialist and to wipe off any aspersions which may have been cast on him, he was in favor of a committee. MONDAY, MARCH 22. The amendments proposed by the senate to the bill foreftabiifh inj an uniform rule of naturalization, and to the bill to provide for the mitigation or remifTion of fines, forfeitures and penalties in certain cases, were taken into consideration. To the firftbill one amendment only was proposed, which was agreed to by the house. The amendment to the other, it was said, involved anal t ration of the principle on which the bill was founded; other ob le&ions were made, and on motion it was voted that the amend ment should lie on the table. In committee of the whole; the report of the fele£t committee on the memorials on the slave trade under consideration. The sixth article was further dikulTed. Mr. Scott commenced the debate this day in advocating the prayer of the memorialists, he was replied to by several ot the Southern gentlemen. It was moved that the claufelhould be ftiuck .out, this motion being put, it pafled in the negative. The committee then agreed to the proportion. The Seventh article was struck out of the report. The committee then rose, and the report, as amended and agreed to, was laid on the table. A roeflage was received from the senate, with the bill making appropriations for the fupp >rt of government for the year 1790, concurrcd in with amendments. Adjourned. TUESDAY, MARCH 23. Sundry memorials and petitions were presented and read.— The amendments of the Senate to the appropriation bill were taken into confederation—the firft was agreed to. The sum allowed by the house to Gifford Dally, Efq, for ser vices performed during the rerefs, it was proposed by the Senate (hould be divided between him and Mr. Mathers the door keep er of the Senate, this amendment was obje&ed to ; after forae con versation, the amendment was concurred in with an amendment. The committee to whom was referred the petition of Rich ard Wells and John Hart, brought in the following report. Resolved, That the poflTcffors of the continental bills of credit, emitted by the authority of Congress, before the ißtb day of March, 1780, on bringing the fame into the Treafuryof the United States, (hall receive certificates for the fame, at the rate of one dollar spe cie value for one hundred dollars of the said bills ; and the fame shall be funded on interest in the fame manner as the other debts of the United States. The interest to commence on the day the said bills (hall be lodged in said treasury—and ail such bills in the treafuryof any State exceeding its quota required by the atts of Congress of the 7th day of O&ober, 1779; and the 18th day of March,l7Bo,on being brought into the treafuryof the United States (hall be credited to the account of such State at the rate aforefaid, on interest of fix per cent, per annum—from the time it was re ceived into the Treasury of the refpeftive States; laid on the table. It was then moved that the house {hould take up the report of the committee of the whole on the memorials of the people called Quakers. —This motion was oppofedby Mr. Jackson, Mr. Smith, Mr. Burke, and Mr. Bland—they severally observed that the dif :uffion of the fubjeft has already excited a spirit of diffention a mong the members of the house—and that every principle ot po icy and concern for the dignity of the house, and the peace and ranquility of the United States, concur to shew the propriety of iropping the fubjeft, and letting it deep where it is.—On the o her hand Mr. Vining, Mr. Hartley, and Mr. Page observed, thai here was the fame propriety in taking up the fubjett at the pre ent moment, and bringing it to a conclusion as there was for firfl aking it up—that it has been so fully difcufled, that it cannot b* uppofed gentlemen will go over the fame ground again ; it ma) oon be determined, to pass it over will be unprecedented, ane nil leave the public mind in the fame State of uncertainty fron vhich so much danger is apprehended. 1 he motion for taking up the report was warmly contested, itx i lengthy debate, and finally patted in the affirmative, by a ma jority of one This was followed by a motion tor entering the re port ot the feleft committee, and the report of the committee of the whole on the journals of the houfs. This motion called up the speakers from all fides of the house, and wasatlaft determin ed by Ayes and Noes as follow. AYES. Hartley, MeflYs Boudinot, Brown, Cadwallader, Contee, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gillman, Goodhue, Griffin, Hathorn, Heifter, Huntington, Lawrance, Lee, Leonard, Madison, P. Muhlenburg, Parker, NAYS' Jackson, Livermore, Matthews, Moore, Messrs Ames, Baldwin, Bcnfon, Bland, Burke, Carroll, Coles, Gale, Pa ge. Van Ranfrllaer, Smith, fM.) Smith, (S. C.) Grout, Stone, For the report of the felecfc committee, fee No. 96, March 10. I he fubftancc of the 1, 3, 5, and 6fti proportions of this report were agreed to by the committee of the whole. The amendment proposed by the House to the Appropriation Bill, was non-concurrcd by the Senate. Adjourned. Partridge, Schureman, Scot, Sedgwick, Sherman, Sylvester, Sinnickfon, Vining, Wynkoop. 29. Sturges, Su mpter, Thacher, Trumbull, Tucker, White, Williamfon. 55.
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