1 CONGRESS. PHILADELPHIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, THURSDAY, March 29, 17?2- In committee of the whole, on the report oj the Secre tary of the Treasury on the public debt. MR. GILES proposed a clause to be added to the firrt propo rtion offered bv Mr. Fitifimons, the ohjrtl of which was to preclude the admiflTion of thc ( irredeemable principle in the debt hereafter to be fubferibed to the loan of the United States. Mr. Giles supported his motion by adducing sundry reasons The creditors, by not availing themselves in leafon ot the chance of fubferibing under the terms of the fulWubfcription— the go vernment, said he, are under no obligation to renew those terms. He said his motion is to have a subsequent operation, and there fore cannot be considered ss an infraction of extlling contracts The irredeemable principle, he observed, is an exotic, and ap pears to have been adopted without a due consideration of its ap plicability to our circumllances —The fundiug system of Great- Britain has proftratcd that government —the prosperity of that country is not owing to its financial arrangements ; Great-Britain is in us decay ; this government is in its youth —It is improper for us to use such (limuUntsas may be necelfjry to induce vigor in age. The irredeemable quality is the result of necefilty in the funding system of Great-Britain ; and that principle will operate its ruin. The argument drawn from a violation of contratts, ap plies as well to the firft lyftem as to that now propoled ; the re duction of the inteieft was a violation of the original contrast. He then entered into a consideration of the principle of equality, and (hewed from the present {tare of the debt, being pan of it in the hands of those who were inimical to the cause which this debt was contracted tofupport, the obligation of the government to add to the gift which in fa6t has already been made to these people, by infuling this irredeemable quality, may well be qucfli oned. He added Tome further remarks, and concluded by faying, he hoped that a principle which would be so fatal to the United States, would be reje£ted, by adopting the proportion he ottered. Mr. Ames offered various estimates, by which he demonstrated that funding the debt on the principle now opposed, would not incapacitate the government from discharging it—on the other hand, it would facilitate the object greatly. Mr. Lawrance observed that the oppofers of the proposed sys tem, after offering various motions, appear at last to be agreed in a fpecifie obje£t. He denied that the consequences which it had been said resulted from the funding system of Great-Britain, had taken place : adverting to the operation of the system in this country, he said the observations were no better founded —With refpeft to the irredeemable quality, he said it was not a novel cir cumstance ; under the old Congress, foreign loans had been made on a similar principle—lt is well known, said he, that the old Congress contra&ed a debt which they could not discharge under ten years; and the payments then could be only made by instal ments—No fault had ever been found with this traofaftion. He then entered into a general defence of the funding system ; and adverting to its operation, he shewed what had been done—the credit of the country had been raised from the lowest ebb, and a larger sum of the debt had been paid off, than any man in the country had any conception of—Here he noticed some remarks which had been offered yeJUrday by a gentleman, who had said that the Secretary had insulted the House by his propositions— and said in his opinion such reflections were not merited by an officer who had done so much for his country. He defended the irredeemable principle, and fhewfd the advantages which the country derived from it. He further remarked, that the govern ment was not precluded from exerting its faculties in discharging the debt, to as great a degree as any person had proposed, or as had been confidercd prudent; and while the United States are thus circurr.ftanced, the douceur to the creditors in the principle row opposed, is in fa£t no poflible disadvantage to the govern- ment. Mr. Mcrcer Paid Llie funding fyflem wss not undciflood by the country at large, and he was not surprized when he found it was not un<Jerftood in (his House—He was glad therefore to hear ob servations thrown out, which served more fully to devclope this fyflem. The irredeemable quality he was afloniflied to hear advocated by any gentleman in this House, for sure he was, that no raeafure of the government was more odious elsewhere, or more uni.vet fally execrated. He adverted to fomc of the financial operations of the Briiifli government, and tlicw a comparison which placed the funding fyflem of this country in a, less eligible point of view than that of Great-Britain. He said that by an easy process it could be made to appear that one half, or at least one third of the 6 per cents might have been paid off, viz. by borrowing at 3 or 4 per cent ; this is the mode which the Bruifh miniftcr a dopted. He fhewtd from certain flatements, that this irrcdcem ar le quality operated so the injury of the holders of the 3 per cents of the United States. The Briti h 3 per cents were ai 100 per cent for a number okyeats togefhei. He denied that the loans which had been made by the old government were on the irre deemable principle ; he said the terms were in favor of the bor rower on exa&ly similar principles with the contra&s in common life. He introduced fame observations ol thofc who had wrote on the fubjefl of finance—he said that funding fyflems had uni formly operated to the definition of the common people ; the principle has railed a fplcndid fuperftru&ure on no foundation whatever. He contrasted the situation of the modern with the ancimt Dutch republic—He dated the enviable situation of the Swiss Cantons—this he said was an eulogiurn on the fleady pro duce of laboi and induflry. Mr. Gerry stated his ideas on the irredeemable principle ; he oefended it on the grounds of justice and policy. He then ad verted to the operation of the funding fyflem—lt had changed, he said, the whole face of our affairs—had transformed us from the vaflals of foreign creditors, to freemen—had revived the trade agriculture and manufactures of the country ; and placed the cre che United States on an equality with thatot the moll flou rifhing European governments, and in a situation much fupenor to some of them. Mr. HcifWr, in a fpecch of Tome length, opposed the irredeem able principle, and ihe funding fyftein in general. Mr. Find Icy said he w?s opposed to the irredeemable quality, lie doubted whether it was nrot go-n-r beyond what is allowed by the (jonftitution. He had heard ii often said that principle was infufed into the system on the idea of its being an equivalent for a redu6l ion of the intcred ; this idea seems to be afTumed bv gen tlemen, but he had not heard any of them adduce anv reason in flip port of tt. He did not think it in any degree an cciuivalenr, nor did he think the creditors considered it in any such lizhr. He was not unacquainted with many of the public* creditors, they r,ot confidcr this as an equivalent; the debtors in this cafe aI fumed the office of judges, and they only considered what was an equivalent. He admitted that the debt was above par ; but com mon interest had not declined—it was in fatt higher at any period during the war ; this he said shewed that the irredeemable qualiiy was not an equivalent; Hence he inferred the cred't of the country was not I'upported by the funding system ; the present credit of the country is a nominal and deftru£hve credit—'there fore he infilled that admitting the residue of the creditors to loan on this principle, will not be g'ving them an equivalent : He con sidered the funding system from the firft, as tending to the interest —not of the citizens but of foreigners ;it has given rife to one bubble after another, which have deluded our citiiens to their de ftru&ion. He denied that it had encreafed the specie, or circu lating medium, or raised the value of the lands, or promoted the manufa&urcs or industry of the country—the r.everfe of all this he laid were farts; credit between man and man is lessened, extra vagance and immorality have spread their baneful influence. He then adverted to the fvftern generally, and reprobated it as a de- the original contratt, thatcontraft which was mod solemnly guaranteed by the cortftitution. What is the obligation of the government in refpeft to the resi due of the debt—he conceived that the present Congress was per fectly clear to ast agreeable to the principles of the original con trail, as much so as the firft Congress. Jn providing for the re sidue he said the government was bound to pi ovide for it by a provision to pay 6 per cent, but not to pay interest on interest. Here he entered into a consideration of the policy of funding the facilities—this he reprobated as unneceflarily incrcafing the public debr, and he could conceive of no other reason but that of en creafing the debt which gave rife to this measure—a measure which ought not to have been adopted, and ought to have been prevented by the States doing their duty. He denied the right of one Congress to fay that another shall not provide for paying off the whole of the debt or of any part of it—for this reason he considered it unconstitutional and should vote against the irre deemable quality : He had no doubt of the right of Congress to alter the funding system tn regard to this principle, and that they would doit whenever they thought proper. The question being put on Mr. Giles' motion it was negatived, 3 2 to 2 5- SATURDAY, May 5. The amendments of the Senate to the two following; bills were taken into consideration, and agreed to by the House, viz. The bill concerning spirits distilled within the United States, and the bill relative to the compensations of certain officers em ployed in the colledlion of' the duties of impost and tonnage. Mr. Madison, of the committee of conference on the process bill, reported that they had met the somrnittee on the part of the Senate, and had agreed refpe&ing fame of the amendments, but did not agree to others—this report was deferred for conlidera tion on Monday. The bill providing for the fettlcment of the demands of A. W. White aoainfl; the United States, was read the third time and pafled. The hill supplementary to th* ast making provision for the debt of the United States, was further di He tiffed—a motion to provide for funding a farther sum on account of several of the States, of their refpe&ive debts, being made, a debate ensued — The previous question being called for, Shall the main qneftion be now put ?" it pafled in the negative, ayes 24, noes 35—as follow ; Meflfrs. Ames, Barnwell, Benfon, S. Bourne, B. Bourne, Fit?- simons, Gerry, Goodhue, Gordon, Huger, Lawrance, Learned, Murray, W. Smith, Steele, Sterrett, Sumpter, Sylvester, Thatcher, Tucker, Vining, Wadfworth, Ward, Williamfon— 24. McfTrs. Afhe, Baldwin, Boudinot, Brown, Clark, Dayton, Findley, Giles, Gilman, Gregg, Griffin, Grove, Hetfter, Hillhoufe, Jacobs, Key, Kitchrll, Lee, Livermore, Macon, Madison, Moore, Muhlenberg, Niles, Page, Parker, Schoonmaker, Seney, J„ Smith, I. Smith, Sturges, Treadwell, Venable, White, Wyllis—3s. The bill being further amended, at a late hour, the qucftion for engrorting was put, and carried in the affirmative. A meflage from the Senate, by Mr. Secretary Otis, informed the House, that they have postponed until the next fertion of Con gress, the consideration oi the bill sent from this House, intituled 41 An ast for fettling the demands of Anthony Walton White, against the United States"—also, that they have parted a bill regu lating foreign coins. &c.—-and that they have appointed a com mittee tQ wait on the Prertdent of the United States, to notify him of the intended reccfs. A mcflage from the President of the United States, by Mr. Se cretary Lear, informed the House that the bill, entitled, 14 An ast for granting and conveying certain lands to John Clcves Symmes, and his artociates also the bill for altering the time of the next annual meeting of Congress, have both received his ap probation and signature. Adjourned. MONDAY, MAY 7. Mr. Bourne of the committee 011 enrolled bills, reported as truly enrolled, the bill relative to the compensations of cer tain officers employed in the collect ion of the duties of import: and tonnage—and the bill to continue an ast providing for mitigating and remitting certain forfeitures and penalties ac cruing under breaches of the revenue laws, and to provide for the payment ot invalid pensions—The Speaker signed the a bove bills. Mr. Bourne reported that the committee had ex amined the bill entitled, an ast concerning spirits distilled with in the United States, and found an error therein—the fame was corrected by general consent. An engroflod bill supplementary to the ast making provision for the public debt, was read the third time—The time of subscribing is extended to the firfl day of March next the books to be opened the firft dav of June next—the other blanks being filled up, the bill was patted. A bill regulating foreign coins, was read twice, and com mitted. The error in the bill concerning spirits distilled within the United States having been rectified, the speaker affixed his sig nature to the fame. 0 Mr. Bourne reported a bill making compensations to the commifiioners of loans for extraordinary expenses, which was read twice, and ordered to be eneroffed for a t iird reading. The meilage of the Senate, which informed the House that they had appointed a committee to wait on the President of the United States, and notify him of the intended lecefs, was taken into consideration, and concurred—and Messrs. Senev, Gilinan and Grove appointed the committee on the part of the House. r In committee of the whole on the bill concerning the claim of John Brown Cutting against the United States. A motion by Mr. Kitchell to strike out 2000 dollars and to insert iooo, some debate—the question beinp put, the motion was negatived—The bill was then reported to the Hon.e without amendment, and was ordered to be engrofTed. The engrofTed bill for maktng compensation to the commif fioneri of loans for extraordinary expenses, was read a third time and pafied. lii committee of the whole on the bill received from the Senate, making alterations in the Treafnrv and War depart ment-. T he'irft feftior, which provide-fir ?.n accoiaita-t to tne War department, \ra, agreed to. The fecnnd, which 430 AYES. NOES. relates ta die appomtm-nt of a crnimWr.ry of military ftor „ . wa« moved ftould be (truck out—this motion »fter fomt deh>. was carried m the affirmative. Some other amendments we,A greed t«, and then the bill war reported to the House. Tk mendments were taken intoconfideratiori, and adopted' wirti exception. The bill was then ordered to be read the third time"* it was accordingly read, and patted. • A bill concerning the claim of J. B. Cutting, «n read the third time and paued—a yet 13 —noes 22 As follow : AYES. Messrs. Ames,Barnwell, Benfon, Boudinot, B. Bourne, Clark FitjfimQns, Gordon, Griffin, Heifter, Huger, Lawrance, Learned" Lee, Livermore, Madison, Muhlenberg, Murray, Pjge, W. Smith* Steele, Sterrett, Tucker— .23. '' " ' Messrs. Alhe, Baldwin, S. .Bourne, Brown, G'le«, Good'nu' Key, Kitehell, Maeon, Moore, Schoottmaker, J. Smith, I.Smith' Smrgtj, Sumpter. Sylvester, Thatcher, Tread well, Venible.Wanf' White, Williauifon—22. ' On/notion of Mr. Lee, the report of the feieft committee on the memorial of Joseph Ceracchi, was recommitted. Mr. Seney, of the committee appointed 10 wait on the PreGdent of the United States, and inform him of the intended adjourn ment, reported that the committee had peiformed that fervtce. The committee to whom was recommitted the memorial of Joseph Ceracchi, brought in a report, which was read, and is highly honorable to the character and abilities of Mr. Ceracchi; but states that it would not be expedient to provide at the present time for carrying into execution the resolution of Cougielt, fc. fpeflingthe statue of General Walhington, &c. On motion of Mr. W.Smith, the House refolded that when they adjourn, they adjourn to meet again at 5 o'clock this afternoon. A meflage from the Senate, bv Mr. Secretary Otis, informed the House that they have pal Ted the bill making compenfatiom to the Commiflioners of I.oans, for extraordinary cxpenfes ; and the bill supplementary to the ast making provision for the debt of the United States. The House took into consideration their amendments to the process bill disagreed to by the Senate. The amendments of the House to the 2d feftion which was to strike out the words " and be at liberty to pursue the fame till a tender of the debt and costs in gold and silver lhall be made," was the firft it was moved that the House should adhere, this motion, after debate was carried in the affirmative—ayes 3?, noes 17—as follow : MelTrs. Aflic, Baldwin, Brown, Clarke, Findley, Gile% Gregg, Griffin, Grove, Heifter, Jacobs, Key, Kitchell, Lee, Livermore, Macon, Madison, Moore, Muhlenberg, Page, Par ker, Sen'ev, J. Smith, Sumpter, Treadwell, Tucker, Venable, White, Williamfon, Wyllis—3o. MelTrs. Ames, Barnwell, Benfon, Boudinot, S. Bourne, Fitz limons, Gilman, Goodhue, Hillhoufe, Learned, Murray, J. Smith, W. Smith, Steele, St urges-, Sylvester, Ward— 17. Adjourned till five o'clock. five o'clock, p. m, The House met pursuant to adjournment. The consideration of the amendments to the process hill was resumed—the House insisted on one, and recedcd from the refi dur of their amendments. In committee of the whole, on the bill for regulating foreign coins, and for other purposes—.Mr. Muhlenberg in the chair. The bill bring read, a motion was made to strike out the fiift fc&ion ; on the question, the numbers being equal, the chairman vored against the motion. The committee proceeded through the several frftions, they then rose and reported the bill without amendment. The House took the fame into consideration. The motion for striking out the firft feftion being renewed, it was agreed to. The fe£Hons depending on this, which related to the rates at which foreign gold and silver coins shall pass in the United States, were of course struck out. The fc£tions relating to a cop per coinage were agreed to—and the bill, as amended, was read the third time and palled. T,he title of the bill was amended to read, " A bill to provide for a copper coinage." Two enrolled bills were reported ; one, "An a£l makingcorn penfationsto the Loan Officers of the United States, for extraor dinary expenses"—the other, " An ast fupplemenrary to the ast making provision for the debt of the United States." The Speaker signed the fame. Mr. Key, after observing that it was of the utmofl importance to provide for finking the public debt by the sale of the vacant lands, moved to take up the bill for the lale of the lands norlli weft of the river Ohio—This motion being put, was negatived. In committee of the whole, on the bill making ccrtain appro priations therein fpecified. The committee proceeded through the bill without amend ment. Mr. Lawrance then moved that the report relative to the pn foners redeemed from Algiers, also refpefting those remaining in captivity, which report had been referred to the committee o the whole on the aopropriation bill, ftiould be taken into cqn 1- deration. Two fcftions were proposed to be added to the I<> agreeable to the report, but after some debate were disagreed to. The bill was then ordered to be cngrorted. A mertage from the Senate, by Mi. Secretary Otis, in ormc< the House that they have concurred in their amendments to t re bill making alterations in the Treasury and War Depaitmcnts, with an amendment." , This amendment was taken into consideration, and agree to. Adjourned. TUESDAY, May 8. An engrofTed bill making certain appropriations tnerej* fpecified, was read the third time, and palled. A melfagefrom the Senate by Mr. Secretary Oti> T mlorme the House that they recede from their disagreement to tie a mendments of the House to the process bill—and that t ev a gree to the amendments to the bill for regulating; °* e o' coins, &c. , Mr. Bourne of the committee on enroled bills, repnite truly enrofled, following bilh—viz. An ast making aitc.s ticms in the Treasury and War department- —an ast for regt lating proceiTes in the courts of the United State*, and ing compensations for the officers of said courts, andforjuro.s and witne.fes—and an ast to provide for a copper coinage Tiie Speaker signed the above bills. . A bill to compensate the services of the late e^ t j? e Gibfon, was taken into consideration, in committee o* whole, and agreed to without amendment —It was ti.en rea the third time, and parted. , .. Mr. Murray called for a resolution laid on the tame by a few days since—viz. Resolved, that the fame a lieu a. ce pc diem be made to the President pro tempore of t.e cn " ' as is given to the Speaker of this House ; and that aco tee be appointed to report a bill accordingly--The re.o was taken into confideration —some difficulties being ed, the motion was withdrawn. . f Mr. Willis pre fen ted the following resolution m r " D * that the Secretary of the Treafurv report at the next as early as may be, the number and capacity of t c 1 the* several diftri&s and ftate c —the nett product o ■ nue arising from the duties thereon, £cc.— c 1 NOES. AYES. NOES.
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