knew ttait the wages were not a fuftcient en couragement to procure £t men, they knew it bore no reasonable proportion to the P rl " of labor, at ieaft where the men were expect ed; they knew that the time wai too short for enlisting the men with such fconty encou ragement, av.d for carrying on_ so di'.tant and precariou an expedition, even ii no acci dents or utifmaiiageineni were to take place ; but cerrairfly accidents and mifmanapement ought to be provided for in undertakings of this nature; they know or might have known that trifling with luch a war would naturally excite the flame, and not quench it- It cannot be pretended that resources were wanting. Congreft received the public purie with the government, and they very properly foou rendered it productive. At an early pe riod revenue* were found ; not only to pro vide for the debts of the Union, for the dis charge of which'they were bound by contract, but alio made provision for the debts of the individual .<tate% to do which thev were bound bv 110 contraa ; and which are not yet liquidated, nor their amount known. 1 can not suppose this neg'ea was altogether owing to inattention, for committees weru frequent ly held on the state of the Union, and surely the defence of the union was the firft subjeCt which could present itfelf to their thoughts. As no fufficient reason for this neglect has ever occurred tome, 1 continue to view it with surprize, perhaps others can better, ac count for it. . However, last session we were fufficiently convinced of our error, the objeCt was fully before us, as well as the plan proposed to be pursued, and however we regretted the ex pence, and evils Hill more to be dreaded, from a {landing army, we from conviction, provided adequate means, and now after much of the expence is incurred, and the end not accomplished, there is an attempt to with draw the means : surely gertlemen have not taken a full view of the fubjeCt. Arguments have been drawn in favor of the resolution from the flow progress ol t! e recruiting service, and the inactivity of the army last summer. On this subjeCt, I have a verv different opinion. Let gentlemen for a moment reflect upon the difficulties the re cruiting service had to encounter. Ihe le vies after a scene of arduous fatigue, endu ring hunger and nakedness, many of them were left rotting on the desolate sod in the wilderness, and those who survived the horrid carnage, returned with infinite hardships to their homes, they with difficulty procured the pittance allowed them by law ; their mouths were filled with complaints, nor did they alone complain ; and though the wages were raised a dollar a month, yet even so, it was not a fufficient encouragement where the greatest number, and the best men were fought for ; but this house are not to blame for this, for we had agreed once, and again to Blake the wages higher, but were overruled by the other legislative branch. When gentlemen maturely refleCt on those considerations, and also that the spring was fat advanced, before the recruiting service could commence, they will with me rather be surprized that it has succeeded so well; it is indeed beyond my most sanguine expectations, and the men are not generally of the most inferior kind, as has been suggested. With refpeft to the inactivity of the army, the observations may have 111 some degree arose from something expressed by me some davs ago, I think on another subject. X then said that the army which rendez voused at Pitcfburgh had not undertaken the defence of the frontier, and prevented the ne cessity of militia service. That some of the counties had been more diftretled by the ra vages last summer, and the militia service mo°re burthenfome than at any time since the peace with Britain—that even the county Where thev lav had to employ militia ; and this is certainly true ; of the reasons for this X have not been informed, nor am I accounta ble for it. However, it is but reasonable that I should offer such reasons as fuigeft them fclves to me. It is well known in this house that General Butler's having, according to orders, Tent such of the levies as arrived ear lv to the frontiers, and therefore afforded n'eceJTary protection in time of harvest, was much complained of, and assigned as a cause of defeat, not only by delay, but want of dis cipline, though I do not think it had that ef fe<st ; yet probably to prevent complaints oi this nature, the introducing discipline and m\- litarv habits among the new raised troops may have been judged preferable to the defence of t'ie frontier ; prevailing desertions might have had its weight; but though this might be complained of with relped to thole op prefTed with savage depredations and militia service, yet certainly the army may be more fit for the great objeCt of an expedition, Ctc. From mv own observations I know that un remitting industry has been used to promote discipline among the troops. But an argument of another natuie, and which seems to have tlie greatest weight with the gentlemen, has been often urged, I mean the expence, and the danger of new taxes. I, it poflible that we have not revenues fuf ficient for the defence of the union > Suielv everv other clami inuft g've way to this. Let it not be said that a tax for onr own de fence could not be levied ; the people would cheerfully pay taxes for this purpole, though they mi"ht think themselves opprefled by o ther demands that are more amply provided . for But a new tax is not necelfary for that purpose: a surplus of exiftiug revenues are at our d-fpofal, befidss the cftimates of the war. It is true we designed to have availed our s-lves of it to begin the extuiguifhinent of o" ir debt, though we have been since told that it is necefTary to be applied otherwise, and we arc called upon to raise a new tax for t .at purpose, not for the purpose of procuring Lace. However anxiously I desire to pay oft the debt, yet I am certain it would be an unwarrantable policy to fubjeft the country to deftructiun lor that purpose ; beiides, 1 believe the alternative proposed would even tually encreafe the expenee. We liave a particular plan in view in order to accomplish peace, .3 that plan executed . Is t.iat object obtained ? I believe gentlemen know we cannot ex plain fully on this fubjetf, as it involves con fidential communications, and plans not lu. mitted to puolic view ; but they ay that two regiments are fufficient to garrison the exilt ing forts. Surely they know that to. t Ham ilton, Fort Knox", See. are not the objeas con templated; nor would these 1 prelume be kept for their own fakes, they cannot defend our territory, nor make it tbe interest ot the Indians to Ik at pe<ice. If we expert to ex ist as a nation we mult defend the territory which we have purchased, which we have fold to othei s, and which uniortunatley «<)r them we have encouraged others to fettle upon. In this I prefmne the committee are agreed, at least I hope so ; but it will be laid the difference is about the means. We are told that the militia are more fit for this kind of war than an army ; let the army keep the forts, and the militia defend the frontiers where they reside, and carry on expeditions against the Indians. Comparing the militia and Handing army is to little purpose ; I have known both the one and the other on fomeoc cafions behave so as to deserve great c() j n ~ mendation, &: at other times behave very 1 . J this depends greatly 011 circumstances, eac jJ have their particular advantages, and each iliay find too much employ ; there are situa tions and circumstances in which the nulitia are undoubtedly best, and there are other fix ations in which a Handing have the ad vantage. But when I lpeak ot militia Ido not mean such as are called in classes » r " m their families, and composed ot many that have neither been accustomed to the wood", nor arms, ar.d go out with reluctance, leav ing all that is dear to them behind, and con sidering the service as a grievous eppreffiou. I know and feel these things- I have been oftenerthan once outwith the militia. 1 mean a fele<stion of the militia willing to go, and experienced in the woods, and in molt of the frontiers such men, or suitable arms do not now abound; but surely for services of a more permanent nature an inlifted army is more suitable. But do gentlemen consider the consequenc es of throwing all internal defence, ar.d dil tant expeditions, upon the militia ? Is it not enough that they already stand as a piquet guard to their brethren who live at ease ; that they eat their bread in the fear of their lives, and are frequently embittered with the view of mournful incidents ; but that we must lay a deliberate plan for encreafing the number of their fatherlels children, and chlld lefs parents ■ I recollefl, it has been said oftener than once on this floor on former occalions, and is still owned by members, that the states who have frontiers ought to provide for their own protection, and that the government of the union ought to assist only in the last resort; in (bort that protection ought not to be a com mon cause. Such highly aotifederal senti ments I cor.fefs I heard with surprise. There a.e some members, however, more jV'nerous and proraife to vote for a iulHcient fumof money to pay the expense. I believe these members are sincere ; but do gentlemen contemplate to what iflue the principles would lead ? Do they not observe that the fate of the government is deeply involved in the de cision ?—Perhaps I may be alked, did not the ltates depend chiefly uppn their own exerti ons for the defence of the frontiers m.der the | old Congress i Yes, they did, and were better j protected than since that period. But let it be recollected that at that time the llates had the command of their own resources, and the laying and executing their own plans : that tbe Indians were not so formidably but that since, the states had not the power ot retaliating, nor the means of gratifying with presents, since the Indians have been solemn. ly told to look away from the little fires of the states, to the great fire of the union : they have looked upon us a more formidable and dangerous foe, and made their arrangements accordingly, and European nations and emis saries among them have improved upon the circumstance, and excited and aided them in their union and exertions. If the militia are to be so much oppreflbd, it must be under their state laws; the operati on of our militia law has not been tried, and the militia will naturally have more confi dence in the laws of the state, ar.d be better paid by them. If the people must undergo all the risk of life and all the hardihips of war, in carrying on a war which they did not coin mence, nor have power to terminate, will they not natui ally look from the government of the union, to that of their own states ! and will the state governments conduct a war with their hands tied ? Will they not take theii own way of conducting the war and of pro curing peace i Surely they will, and the ge neral government ought only to hope for obe dience* and respect as long as it gives general protection, which was the reason of its inflitu tion. But if gentlemen were willing thus to surrender the principles of the government, they ought firft to put the frontier states in as good a situation as the new Congress found them ; when the Indians were not united, and when they did not know that they could so easily and compleatly defaat us. Supposing that we appropriate a fufficient sum of money to pay the frontier militia for conducting the war of the union ; I ask who are these militia ? is it those unfortunate few whom we induced ho fettle at Marietta that are to protect our extensive western territo ry, against the united exertions ot all the west ern Indians ? or is it the few scattered inha- 258 """ S"", »■ "* :SS=SK—s-srsss sAswSSi n* 0..«. Uj* intention of even the members who have e. preyed themlelves so. w hirh the From the very inadequate p J • militia have already rece.ved the ty of obtaining it, however weU dJpoted W members who propose it may be, theie is 1 r "round to confide in the ' amo'e especially when it is coiiltfered that the Vxpenfe has been the argument most dwelt upon by all the gentlemen- Arguments however of another and more important nature have been suggested in fa vor of leaning the army. I able disposition of our citizens and theprmci Dies of our government ; in this lam heait y L-eed, and were the argument upon original around, and the measure optional, I would doubtleft oppose an army ; but the qoefbon Ho., whether we (hall begin a war or whe ther we ihall have a standing army to aid the foment in time of peace ; « that were the cafe I would certainly be on the other fide, but with us it is a question of nerftv n nf choice, it is to procure a peace, and not to procure a war; it is to protect, , t0 oppress or aid in govern,ng our citizens , I know that standing armies have always been sources of oppression and aids of tyranny; our people may long be governed without such aid s their situation will not admit oi abu.es from standing armies, nor would the citizens submit thereto. f However when I observe the difficulty of procuring money for the /upport of even a neceflarv force, and the jealousy ot armies so prevalent among the members; whatever difficulties it may now produce, yet thr. ti. - nofition augurs well towards the fecuitty ot our liberties; when I also conf.der how anxi ous the people rfthe United States and the members of Coigrefs are for peace, and what extraordinary exertions the executive has made to preserve it; and when I also refLft, that the next Congress will be a more full and equal repre entation of the pecple s efts and sentiments than we are, I am conii dent the army will be discharged ss soon as our afFairs'will admit of it. _ The profpefts we have ol peace are not ve ry flattering, they by no means arise from the good dispositions of the Indians towards us, nor from the love of peace,but from thedread of the power and permanency ol our force ; take away those impressions and all our proi pefts of peace vanifli; it may be reco.lefted that the Six Nation Indians were our invete rate foe-:, and would never listen to the voice of peace until they felt our power, and we have fufficient proofs, that their continuing peaceable does not arise from their dispositi ons towards us, but from their being so much in reach of our power. Admitting that the militia were in refpeft the best for fight ing Indians,and thatwe could in justice throw the burthen and risk of fighting wholly on them ; yet this method would certainly length en the war ; we have, and always had the militia ; but they are not a visible force, the strokes they make distress and irritate the Indians, and when the expedition is over the force disappears, and the Indians meditate and too often obtain revenge ; the apprehen sion of an army strikes them with apprehensi ons of a permanent design, and convinces them that it is their interest to have peace ; the late murders of those who bore the en signs of peace are an undoubted proof that the profpefts of peace do not arise from any other ! motives than the dread of our force. When I reflefton our having so lately been convinced of the indifpenfible necessity ofraif ing an army, and before it was poflible to ac complish the object intended, that a motion is made for leflening that force, I am truly sur prised at the inconsistency to which it would lead ; surely there is not such an instance to be found in the history of nations, nor in the acts of public bodies, and if it Ihould succeed it would mark our councils in an extraordi nary point of view. Howeve, so averse am I to armies and so sensible of the evils they have occasioned, that I gave a I'erious ear to the motion, and maturely examined the circum stances in which the cafe was involved. I wilhed for reasons tojuitify my fapporting thereof, but examination produced convicti on of its impropriety. The gentlemen doubtless have determined from thefirft imprellion of the fubjeft ; more minute investigation will convince themselves of the bad policy of such an unrealonable change of measures. I with great reluctance was convinced of the necellitv of so great a force last session, but even if I had been final ly against it last feilion, I would nevertheless have been for supporting that force in the pre sent important crisis ; better by far we had never made the law for raising the army than to repeal it now. The present Indian war is eifentially dif ferent from any former one. When Britain and France divided North America betwixt them, if the emmiffaries of both excited thp Indians to war, the power of both afforded protection. When Britain became pofl'efled of the Western posts, and many tribes of In dians commenced a war, the British govern ment conducted the war, tarried it into the Indian country, and by the dread of their arms procured a peace ; but the Indians were not thenfupported by other powers. But in the preieut war, the Indians who at that time knew nothing of us, have combined to make it a common cause ; and no superior power interest tJierafeives in our favor, no, they con«<v? oSr inftrefti toK: inimical totheirt, But if they d;d not receive encouragement, protection, and supplies from our European neighbors a peace wou!d soon he procured, the gentlemen who lupport this resolution know well how that matter (lands, and tlwy know explanations here are not convenient. I once thought of nuving a retaliation lor limiting the time of enlisting to feme day in March or April next, knowing that tlie inter, mediate winter months are the bed season for recrjuiting, and apprehending the best op. portunities of disciplining would then be pro bably over J Wut upon second thought, I ap prehend this was not necelfary, that nioit pro bably the army by that time would l>e so near ly compleat, that ali the fuvsng of money it would make, would be no object, and reflect ing that the President was already authori'ed either to stop recruit ng, or to d;ich.trge the new regiments wben circumstance* would ad' mitof Inch a inea ure. From the observa tions I have made the committee will lie con vinced that 1 deiign to vote agaiuft the re. solution. (D'tal' be confirmed.) Tweidai, January 8. Mr. Gicenup laid the following motion on the table yesterday That a committee be ap pointed to prepare and bring in a bill, for plac ing on the pension lift, all futh officers and pri vates of the militia, who have been, or ftiall be wounded, or disabled in the service of the United States, and not provided for by law. A petition was presented by Mr. Muhlen berg, Irom William Wirtz, praying compenfa tien for services during the late war. Read and referred to the Secretary of the Treasury. The House took into consideration, the bill making appropriations for the year 1793, as re ported by the committee of the whole ycfterday. Some debate ensued on the item of contingencies for the War Department; the sum reported in the estimate is 50,000 dollars. The House at length filled the blank with 30,00 c the blanks being filled, it was ordered that the bill be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow. A message was received from the Senate by Mr. Sicretary Otis, informing the House that the Senate have passed a bill in addition to the ast for eftablilhing the Judicial Courts of the United States; anddefirethe concurrence of the House. Another meflage from the Senate iuformed the House, that they have parted a bill, which originatsd in the House, for allowing interest on a sum due to the persons therein mentioned, pursuant to a resolution of the late Congress. On motion of Mr. Steele, the ayes and noes were taken this day on the proposed amendment to his resolution, for reducing the military es tablishment of the United States viz. Resolved, That a committee be appointed to prepare and bring in a bill for reducing the mili tary ellablifhment of the United States to regiments, consisting of the non-comniif fioned officers and privates bow in service, or which may be recruited before the day of next; with such proportion of com missioned officers as thu President of the United States may think proper. A T E S. Mess. A&e, Clarl, Giles, Oilman, Gerry, Goodhue, Grove, Greenup, Lee, Leonard, Livcrmore, Macon, Mercer NOES. Mess. Kittera, Lawrance, Milledge, Muhlenberg, Murray, Sedgwick, Schoonmalter, W. Smith, Js. Smith, Sterrett, Sturges, Sylvester, Thatcher, Wadfworth, White, Willis. The ayes and noes on the original motion, were then called: Mess. Ames, Benfon, Barnwell, Baldwin, S. Bourne, B Bourn, Boudinot, Dayton, Findley, Fitzfimons, Gregg, Hartley, Heifler, Hillhoufe, Huger, Kitchell, A Y £ s. Mess. Mercer, Mess. Aflie, Clark, Giles, Gilman, Goodhue, Greenup, Grove, Leonard, Livermore, Macon, N 0 Mess. Ames, Barnwell, Baldwin, Benfun, lioudinot, S Bourne, Dayton, Findley, Fitzfimons, Gerry, Gordon, Gregg, Hartley, Ilillhoufe, Huger, Kitthell, Kittera, Lawrante, Mess. Madison, Moore, Nilcs, Orr, Parker, J. Smith, Steele, Sumpter, T re&dwell, Tucket, Venable, Ward, Williamion. %6. Niles, Orr, Parker, Lee Steele, Sumpter, T readweli, Venable. Ward. « E S. Mess. Milledge, Moore, Muhlenberg, MurTay, Schoonmaker, Sedgwick, J. Smith, Is. Smith, W. Smith, Sterrett, Sturges, Sylvtfter, Thatcher, Tucker, Wadfworth. White, Williamfon, Wiilis. 3'
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