rolina, and prior to the ilate of his letters, he was furnifhed with the moll indubitable aiul per fect information, reliitiv e to ihe strength of the enemy, and the support he might depend upon jn men and relources ; and this infotniauon was founded on experiment and actual obie;vation, made on llic fpoc by inylelf and hundreds of o thers palfing through the whole country, viliting almolt every pelt, and immediately under my command, and communicated by letters as well as personal information from officers of conlide ration and diftintftion, sent for thatpurpofe,who are at this day living and well acquainted with the facfts ; ready to vouch, that the lupport giv en, far exceeded any thing that was promised to General Greene, provided that he would return (o South-Carolina. In the fame letter it is also afi'erted, that there were but very few militia in the field, thole not to be depended upon, having it in view rather to plunder and accumulate the inileries and dif trelles of the country,than to giveany lupport to the independence ot the United States: and a gain, that we were contending with more than five times our number, and amonglt a people much more in the enemy's interest than our's, & that the Hate mud and will inevitably fall with out the immediate afiiltance of foreign aid—that he has it only in his power to keep up appear ances, without the profpeft or hope of luccefs. In opposition to this account of the itate of af fairs, Gen. Sumpter laid, that so far from the numbers of the enemy being five times greatej', or that the people of the country were more in their interelf than ours, or that they were lo infamoully disposed ; he would take upon him to declare that the reverse was the faift ; and that the account above stated was not founded in truth. It is a notorious faift, that the greatest collected force of the Britilh at Cambden, was not more than a thousand effective men,or twelve hundred going to the extent ; and iuch was the situation of that poll: that no aid or alliftance from any direction could be given, all their other ports, in the interior part of the ftaie, being at that time invelled. Againlt this force we had then collected in the vicinity of Cambden more than 3500 effective men, well appointed and molt happily disposed for attacking or cutting off Lord Rawdon's retreat to Charleston, which could have been, and ought to have been effected. This, Mi". Chairman, must prove that the number of militia was very refpecftable, and constituted by far the greatest and molt efficient force for that particular service. Shall fnch abuse then be i'uf fered to remain j on the characters of (o great a number of rel'peiftable and patriotic citi zens ? Who put themselves under the command of Marion and Sumpter, and who, under every disadvantage, in a country over run by a power ful foe, unsupported, unprotetfed by their own government, unknown or unattended to by the general government, thus fubjecft to every incon venience or difcouragemem, and only supported by their own zeal and pan iorifm, and by a sense of love and duty to their country. 1 fay, Sir, that under all these unfavorable cir comftauces, the citizens of that country did af fenible, and equip theinfelves, either at their own expence, or by the importance of their services, and continued their unremitting exertions, for more than ten months preceding the date of the letreis : they were separated from their families and connections, doomed and obliged to subsist on what could be obtained within the enemy's lines. How then can the accounts given in the letters, just quoted, be reconciled with these fads ! Are fncli men to be traduced and calum niated in a stile that would dishonor ruffians > The very communications of' Congrtfs, offering thanks to the Militia, were f'/pp' [fed, when even those ac knowledgements would have been grateful and ani mating to them. The extraordinary exertions made by the North-Carolina militia, of which Gen. Sumpter said he was a witness, entitled them to the approbation and thanks oft heir coun try, and not to such inveiftives and afpei fions as are lavished in those letters. Ave these to be the rewards of merit and he roism, for l ilks and lofles, for services and facri sices of property and life, for exposing themfclves to every danger, and withholding nothing that cotild promote the public interefl ? Is this can dor, Mr. Chairman, to traduce such characters ? or is it not calumny, involving every epithet of the blacked opprobrium ? Having thus far dated the circumstances, and compared them with the misftatemenis communi cated by Gen. Greene in the letters alluded to, Gen. Sumpter concluded by faying, that if the committee should be of opinion, that the proofs he had now brought forward were fatfts to be relied on, they mull operate as evidence to inva lidate other communications from the fame source and authority, and verify his firlt aflertion, that thofc letters do not contain a true ftaretne'nt of the situation of public affairs at the time thev Here Written. CONGRESS. PHILADELPHIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, FRIDAY, February 3, 179 2 * In committee of the whole, on the bifl)ery Bill. [CONTI NUED.3 MR. GERRY having moved to strike out the words " bounty allowed" in order to in ferc " allowance made" by' way of accommoda- tion, Mr. Murray observed, that the queflion was, whether a bounty (hould be given lor the encou ragement of the filhery : the amendment pro posed by the gentleman from Maflachufetts ( Mr. Gerry) did not alter the principle—it was (till " the old cockek hat" on the one hand, and on the other, " the cocked old hat the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Kitzfimons) had alferted, that Congress have a right to alter "the drawbacks, and allow them in any other mode, by which the citizens may receive back their own money : but this is not a cafe of that nature ; for the bill fays, " in cafe the monies appropriated (for th: payment of the duties) (hall be inadequate, the deficiency fliall be supplied from the treasury here the treasury is pledged for the payment of the boun ties ; and the question is, not on the principle of changing the drawback, but the giving encou ragement to a particular branch, at the expense of the community at large. Mr. Barnwell observed (among other things) that those who are bell acquainted with the filh eries, look on the proposed mode of encourage ment as the belt ; and that they ought to be al lowed to use the gifts of the public in the molt advantageous mauner :—that, if he were him lelf concerned in the cultivation of any particu lar commodity, fcr the encouragement of which a sum were granted, he would be much surprised to meet a refufal, in cafe he should come for ward, and propose some more effectual mode of applying that grant :—that even if the bounties should happen to exceed the drawbacks, by 8 or 10 thoufond dollars, the number of seamen to be maintained would be well worth that sum ; —that whenever the two lioufes of Congress and the President of the United States are of opinion, that the general welfare will be promoted by railing any sum of money, they have an undoubt ed right to raise it, provided that the taxes be uniform :—that although it may not at present be an objecft of great consequence to America to become a maritime power, yet it is of some im portance to have constantly at hand a nurferyof seamen, to furnifh our merchants with the means of transporting their commodities across the sea ; that whatever allowance or bounty is granted upon any particular commodity, must ever be paid by the whole, for the advantage of a part, whether it be upon cotton to the southward, up on filh to the eastward, or upon other commodi ties in the middle States ; —that, if the people cannot have so much confidence in their repre sentatives, as to trust them with the power of granting bounties, the government must be a very paltry one indeed. The objecft of the bill, he said, was only to allow to the fifhermen, in the manner that would be molt beneficial to them, the fame sum, that would otherwile be allowed : —if however, from time and experience, it should appear that this bounty proved a.i iinpo fition on government, he would not hesitate to revoke it. Mr. Gerry. The State of Maflachufetts asks nothing more, than equal justice. We do not come forward, to request favors from the United States : we only wish, that the fame fyltem, which is applied to other parts of the union, may be applied to us. But in examining this queltion, we wish that gentlemen would not make diltinc tions, which will not admit of a difference. The propoled allowance has been called a bounty 011 occupation, and is said to be very dif ferent from that encouragement, which is the incidental result of a general commercial fyltem : —but in reality it is no bounty :—a bounty is a grant, made without any confidcration whatever, as an equivalent ; and 1 have no idea of a boun ty, which admits of receiving from the person, on whom it is conferred, the amount of what is granted. We have inipofed a duty on fait, and thereby draw a certain sum of money from the fifhermen :—the draw back is, in all inltances, the amount of the money received :—this is all we ask ; and we ask it for a set of men, who are as well entitled to the regard of government, as any other class of citizens. It has been supposed, that the allowance, made to the fifhermen, will amount to a greater sum, 346 than the drawback on the exportation • fifh : but I think it has been clearly fl )eWn this will not be the cafe the contrary' , presumable, that the drawback on the fifh w u " ld on the whole exceed the sum, which i, propo to be allowed to the fifhenuen ; fo..,«i,n M t UMght be more, fonietimes less. 1 he calculation is made on general principle and it is lnipoinbie to calculate to a (ingle cent ' the quantity of fait, to be expended on the fi'h" cannot be minutely ascertained : but this w aj heretofore conhdered as a fufficient reason whv Congress flionld refufe to allow the drawback they allowed it, though in a different fhape-1 It is now proposed to make a further cotmnuta tion : gentlemen call this a bounty on occupa". noil but is there any propofitiqn made for paying to the fifhermen, or other persons con cerned in the fifhery, any funis, which we have not previously received from them if this were the cafe, it would indeed be a bour.ty .-—but if we beforehand receive from them, as muchas the allowance amounts to, there is 110 bounty want ed at all. 0 If however it really was a bounty on occupation it would after all be only an indulgence similar to what has been granted to the landed and agri cultural interest : —we have laid on hempa duty of 54 cents per hundred weight ; afld on beer, ale, and porter, five cents per gallon now I ask gentlemen, wheiher the profefl'ed defi-rn of those duties was to raise a revenue, ortoprevent the importation ofthofe articles ? they were laid for no other purpose, than to prevent foreigners from importing them, and thereby to encourage our own manufactures ; and was not that encou rugement a bounty to the persons concerned in producing such articles in this country ? If the duties had not been laid, the importer could fell much cheaper, than he now can ; and the land ed interest would be under a necessity of felling cheaper in proportion. If those prohibitory du ties operate as a bounty in favor of railing hemp, and of brewing beer, ale and porter, I alt, whe ther, if a bounty weie proposed on every quin tal of fifh, it might not, with the fame propriety, be granted ? If we have not a right to grant a bouiiLy in the one cafe, we have as little right to grant it in the other. A calculation has been offered, to (hew that the proposed allowance will exceed the amount of the present drawbacks, by io,ooo dollars a year : but that calculation has been proved to be erroneous : (uppofe however that this was the facft, what companion is there -between fucb a tax on the citizens of the United States, wrfthe tax borne by the citizens of Maflachufetts, for the defence of the wellern frontier ? A commer cial war is waged against the American filheriei, by foreign nations, who lay heavy duties on tbt American filh, and apply the produce of tbofe duties in bounties to their own fiOiermen : and their fifheries being less extensive than ours, the duty, thus imposed on our fifh, and beftowedin bounties to their vessels, operate in a two-foM proportion to the discouragement of our fiflier men, and the encouragement of theirs. I wi(h to know on what principle gentlemen can expect, that the citizens of MalTachufe't* lhould contribute 200, 0e0 Dollars, or perhaps 1 greater fuin, for the protection ot the welttrn frontier against the Indians, when no conn in tion is made to support the commerce of M* 1 chnfetts, which, without this support, will ens effectually ruined, as if their velfels were captur ed by an enemy. The principle is catrie- Jl ther with refpeCi to the protection of the ro " tier : we have voted large funis as P re ® nis . the savages, to keep them friends to the ron settlers : there is however 110 clatife >nt e co ftitution, that will authorise a nieafure 0 kind : ic is true, indeed, we have a crulate trade and commerce with . tribes ; but does that give us a power to re the United States tributary to the ■ if we make them inch grants eveiy jeai, not ill fact become tributary to them . The gentleman from Virginia that although this plan ot encoui a g ul £ . oH lies, may be wife policy in Britain, a* . all fides surrounded by the sea, yet t States will not equally find their at . c ° l ! is, filing the fame plan. The Hate o j;fferent in point of exposure from the f MaHachofetts: ly circumstanced from the (late of* s o[ - we have a vast extent of count' y, 4) » _ to wns sea const, exposed : the citizens 0 a oC . along the coalV are obliged to pu> s not cupations ; and I hope the gf nt '^ olltf d,.i* wifli that the country (hould be dep p D the inhabitants driven off to fettle the teri i r ory. , . Qr .nilv circo" 1 " The itate of Virginia is ver; h PI • ftanced with refpetf to a mar ' n< \ jj pretty I '' such an event take place, j >at coa 6^ c! cure from depredations : but >' |iicbn stir» » r f how much the inhabitants of oUg htt° lo ° exposed in a cafe of that kin .' for [he jr tie forward, and make iome pi'^ eS pc&, ib fence they have as good a r. c .
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