CONGRESS. PHILADELPHIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, TUESDAY, January 10, 1792- Continuation of the Debate tn the Petition oj Catha rine Greene, widow of the late Gen. Greene. General sumpt-er raid, with refpetft to the resolution as it now hands, he should always feel himfelf obliged to oppose it—no thing that has fallen from the gentleman over the way (General Wayne) has convinced me that the measure is proper or just. It was necelikry, he said, to be cautious in the manner of difcufl ing a matter of so much delicacy—he did not rife to make any pointed objections at present that can in any degree injure the reputation of the officer whose abilities he refpedted, or to hurt the feelings of his family or connections. I lup pofe, said he, that no gentleman will decide in favor of the resolution without examining the merits of the cafe : the committee will have that information which they shall deem to be requi site on the occasion. lam f»rry to difFer in opi nion with the gentleman from Georgia, and am therefore difpol'ed to make lacrifices of my own feelings of part injuries, and will not fufFer them to warp or bias my judgment, but will endeavor to decide in conformity with the opinions of the people the state of South Carolina, and in parti cular of the diftri<st which I have the honor to represent. In going into the investigation of this matter, I will give my reasons why 1 do not think the country, although in extreme distress, was in that deplorable situation which has been re presented ; neither was its credit reduced folow but that relief might have been obtained, and that so small an army might have been accom modated had a proper application been made in time to the government. —The gentleman mult therefore be mistaken in Itating those circum stances, for if the proper documents be examin ed, it will appear that the army received very ample supplies from the fame source, some months previous to the contract made by Mr. Banks— which mult have been in November, or early in December, and previous to the evacuation of Charleston. Whether it was better to adopt the means used by Gen. Greene, or those within the power of the government, 1 shall i»ot pretend to determine, but I have no doubt but that the go vernment poflefled both the means and the incli- nation. The contrail was firft made by Banks in No vember or December, and Gen. Greene did not become the guarantee until the April following —whether there were any reasons for preferring this mode to that of an application to govern ment, will perhaps appear in the course of the investigation. Mr. Chairman, this contract has been consider ed to have operated rather as a misfortune, al though it may have afforded a temporary relief: it was the occasion of much complaint, vexation and difltruft, rather than of conciliation : and th&t difcouten-t ran through the army is with in wie knowledge of several officers whose names could be mentioned. It is therefore neceflary to bring the matter into the full view of the committee, and to have rec«urfe to the files of the public offices, before we agree to the resolution on the table. At the fame time it is my sincere wiffi to render jullice to the family of the deceased in every reasonable accommodation ; but it does not appear to me that the family are reduced to that disagreeable situation which has been represented—The large grants that have been made by the dates of Geor gia, North and South-Carolina, are (till in the pofleflion ofthe heirs ofthe deceased, and 1 have been informed that a gentleman offered 30,000 dollars for that granted by N. Carolina, so late as last fumtner—neither have I Iveard that any dis tress has been levied upon any of these estates, or that they are so much affedted in reality, but tha: the claims made againll them are rather of a no minal and visionary nature.—But admiting that General Greene was fertility for the United States, and that the operation had been benefi cial, (which by the bye I deny) does it appear that executions have been levied to any consider able amount, or to such an extent as to iuftify the present application ?_To me it does not ap pear this has been the cafe, neither do 1 believe that the estate has been reduced in the manner represented ; and whilst I fay it, I honestly and unceieJy hope it ; under which impreflion I can never accede to the resolution on the table Mr. Wadfworth—The gentleman lalt up has saul many things to me utterly unintelligible and others which diredtly militate with what I lias been said by the gentleman from Georgia— ' He has, however, declared that no real or sup posed perfotia! injury (hall influence him in giv ing his opinion or vote—l hope, fir, he will not now feel or resent those real or supposed inju ries Ido believe they are not real—and from my long and intimate acquaintance with Gen. Greene, 1 had good opportunity to know him— a better man I never did know—that he had e nemies is not to be wondered at—the nature of his command to the southward was important,cri tical and difficult, and he might be constrained to do things that neceflity only would joftify— if he has injured any man he has attoned for it neither the tougue or pen of malice have been able to affix a ltigma on his charadier—lf I ever knew a man whose heart was pure and without guile, it was Gen. Greene—yet he had enemies —no man deserved them so little—more honed fame is due to no man—and if his fortune is to be facrificed, and his family beggared, it is a con folarion that his good name will lall forever.— Being one of his executors, I know something of his affairs, but it was with reludlance 1 rose, as my attachments to him and concern for his fa mily, render it extremely difficult for me to en ter on the fubjedi—The gentleman from South- Carolina has told us he is acquainted with the affairs of the estates in the Carolinas, and has told us they are without any executions against them, the bonds on good credit, and the family in no danger of poverty, &c.—l can hardly al low, fir, that he is acquainted with the affairs of Gen. Greene, even in South-Carolina and Geor gia—but if he is, I will ask him if he does not know that all the negroes from the South-Caro lina estate are fold, and the land totally unpro ductive—that Mr. Rutledge has prevented exe cutions from taking the Georgia estate by his personal interference—that all the estates in Rhode-Island and New-Jersey are fold and that the hope of the justice we now ask for, has delayed the sale of all the reft—to fatisfy his creditors—his southern creditors ! The proofs and documents alluded to by the gentleman, (Gen. Sumpter) have been before Congress for several years, and the friends and executors of Gen. Greene, have challenged his enemies in every part of the Union to disprove them—and I hope no delay will now take place —the business is fully before Congress—l hope justice will be done to the widow and orphans of the late Gen. Greene—and that the investiga tion -will now be finifhed—his honed fame vin dicated and eftabliihed—and his family saved from the ruin that awaits then). MONDAY, January 24. Same Subjefl continued. Col. Hartley, in support of General Wayne's motion, observed, I have paid some attention to the report and the documents referred to in it, as well as the objections made to the resolutions under consideration. Many of the objections have been answered by gentlemen who were nearer the Scene of a&ion than myfelf: I shall strive to obviate others. The mode of conducting our affairs in South- Carolina, does not seem to have been agreeable to the gentleman opposite to me from that state (Gen. Sunipter) and he expresses his high disap probation of many parts of it. When 1 disagree with that gentleman, I do it with great reluctance; for no one en this floor has a greater refpecft for him than myfelf. In a hazardous and difficult situation, or in carrying on war, or even in great politicaj ques tions, the bell friends may differ in the mode of conducing the fame ; and it has too frequently happened, that such difference has tended to les sen the friendfhip which formerly existed. Upon the whole, our arms to the southward were crowned with success: we must presume the means generally used, were right. If supplies could have been furnifhed by the state of South-Carolina, it is a pity they were not granted. I fay, it is poflible Gen. Greene might have pursued a different mode to obtain cloathino and prorrifion. He did not. He was of no other plans could have been fuccefsfully fol lowed, but those which were adopted. The idea of his being a partner with Banks and Co. seems to be given up bv the opposition. The mere insinuation of Mr. Banks and some others, can have no influeuce against such a cloud of evidence and documents. These for the Ge neral are so ttrong, that they would work con viction upon almost the greatefl infidel. I shall barely advert to a part of them, as men tioned in the report, and on this head srive a few observations of my,own. The application to the legiflarnre of South- Carolina, in order to create a competition. Had he been concerned as a partner, or intended to be io no competition through that channel would have been proposed. If he was to be a partner, ad'Zige " "• lnr * 5U, •". "iEI." lh« Tile bond of indemnity so General Greene. Oaths of Banks and Hunter, 326 Certificate from Major Forfytb. Natbahiel Pendleton's oath. Charles C. Pinckney's oath (now Governor of Sonth-Carolina) and the certificates of the tw o Chancellors of South-Carolina, who were both high in the executive, when tliefe tranfaiftions /hould have happened. Besides, fir, if we consider how many partners there were concerned with in the different transactions ; had General Greene been one of the Company, it must long since have been ma nifefted to the world. The secret could not have been kept nor can we possibly think, that Gen. Greene (who was undoubtedly a man of nnder- Itanding) would have exprefled himfelf in the manner he has done, in the close of his letter from Newport, dated the 24th of August, 1785 had he been a partner. He fays there, " Thus have I given your Excellency a short narration of the origin and situation of this matter, and have only to add on this fubjedt, that I never held any commercial connexion with the company, other than what concerned the public, either diretflly or indiredtly, or ever received onefarthingprofit or, emolument, or the promise of any one from them ; and my bond of indemnity expressly de clares that I have 110 interest, connexion or con cern in the debts for which I became bound, all which I am willing to verify on oath." Could he pledge his honor, his reputation, had he been guilty of an untruth ? No, it is impotfi ble ! nature cannot credit it. He would have been silent had he been a culprit, and not have challenged the world, as the power of detection would have laid with so many, and the (haft of envy always ready—l hope every man tnuft be fatisfied that the General was no partner. The great points of contest before the commit tee seem now to be, v I ft. Did the Genera! enter into these engage ments out of personal regard to individuals, with out a view to the public interest? 2dly. Was not the good of the public his prin cipal object ? Under all circumstances, (hould riot his eftatebe indemnified ? As to the firtt, I cannot think that the General, out of mere personal regard to individuals, with out a view to the public good, would have been bail. He had been elteemed a man of prudence, and was not a person of large fortune. How would he embarrass his family and property in such engagements? Who, under mere motives of friendship, would have done so ? The sum was too large—he had no interest. He got no goods or money for himfelf. He might have had a fa vorable opinion of some of the company, bat his relponfibility was become neceflary with a view to the public good. As to the second, public good inuft have been his principal object. The contracts before made would not have been carried into execution, without the aid of the contract, for which the in demnity was made in April 1783. A great manv articles were absolutely neceflary to the army— they were connected with others—the neceflaries could not at that critical period, or for the mo ment, be obtained else where. The merchants,as I understand, infilled upon two conditions before they would deliver the goods—ift, that all (he goods should go together—2d, that the command ing officer should become security. There was a necessity for an additional capital, Co furnifh the means for supporting the army; and as mod of the goods were ufeful and neces sary, the residue might be disposed of to the bed advantage, and the money arising from them be applied towards payment of the debt*- Public necessity and the (late of things would oblige the General to agree to the firft condition. The compliance with the second condition be came a neceflary consequence. The General's letter from Newport, and Gen. Wayne's oath, Nathaniel Pendleton's oath, and other evidence, prove the situation of the army. As to the third point, should nor his eflate be indemnified ?—Through his zeal for the public good, he has unfortunately involved hiseftatem difficulty, whatever the conduct of the company might be. The creditors were not to be ?ffected either by the fraud or failure of Banks and the purchasers. General Greene was liable. The General, when he hears of mifc«ndoct, does all he can Co save and indemnify himfel'* and through him the United States fecuriti'j were taken in as ample a manner as they com be obtained from the delinquents ; and Genera Greene never wished to call upon the public, until every other means failed. So late as t year 1785 he had dill hopes there would be no loss, but then he found the danger ; a fenff 0 duty obliged him to come forward to save hiw felf and family, to ask the protection of thep" lie, to indemnify him from a debt that he ' contracted to save an army from mutiny and > banding ; to protect a country which other"" e would have been exposed. Many exertions ij> he to make to feed the hungry and co*c 1 ® naked : were not these for the public good, a" (hall his private property fuffer ? Shall his ly be reduced to beggary, be ltiipped of t 61
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