to expect a liqnidatidn of the demands of the States, and without the latter, he ihould despair of a continuancc ol the national union. Mr. Sedgwick, obfervcd that there was another very important light in which the fubje£l might be viewed, viz. the probable consequence which would flow from the mode or modes which might be adopted, for the dilcharge of the state debts. II laid he, they are left on the (boulders oPthc state legislatures, the ci tizens will be very unequally burdened, to difchargc demands which they will rcafonably consider as unjust. This will create or continue invidious diftinttions between ftatcs and their citizcns. It will further promote a spirit of emigration among the Hates, ■which fuffer the moll, which will encreafe the load, on those who (hall remain behind, and finally, render it intolerable. There was, he further observed, ar. evil yet unmentioned of a nature infinitely more malignant and dangerous—that principle of tooftility, which from this state of things, would be unavoidable, between the national and state governments; for it was easy to forefee that the sources of revenue, over which the two kinds of government, had a concurrent contratt, would be seized on by t-ach, to the oppreflion of the people and the discouragement of industry. That hence would ensue a war of legislation, aided on each fide, by panizans made active, by the powerful incen tives of felf interrft ; tor there would exist an obvious opposition of intercft, between the national and the State creditors. That in such a state ofconfufion, theintereft of both would probably be injured, and the very being of the government brought into clanger. The States, for theif own fakes, would put their debts on a foot ing as refpettable as poflible : To do this, they mult have recourse to direst taxes, and to duties of excise. The former would be found inadequate to the purpose, and carried to an/ considerable degree, would be oppreflive, unpopular, and might be dangerous. Ifexcifes were tried, the advantages of commerce would be ren dered very unequal in different States : Hence would arifc a mo tive for transfering mercantile capitals from one State to another. And he aflud, whether in this way there wasany reasonable foun dation to hope that we Ihould become or continue a nation ? Mr. $edwick further observed, that he fuppofedSno one would imagine that by the adoption of a national government, any addi tional ability, in regard to the collettion of taxes,was given to those of the States : That it would be unneceflary to remind gentlemen in how difgracfful a situation the securities of States now were— constantly fluctuating, aud (hrinking from the grasp of the pub ic creditor, they affoided only a profit and employment, to an army of speculators, roaming from town to town and from village to village, purchasing of the needy holder, in the moment of dif appointmcnt, when the market was low and felling again when it rife.*. On the other hand said Mr. Sedgwick " the advantages of the opposite policy are manifeft A and certain.—lt will make this go vernment the centre of the wishes and affettions, of the property of the countrv---and enable the government riches, to repay for these advantages, in the encouragement it will afford, to industry and to every ufeful improvement and occupation.—lt will termi nate in the fuppreflionol direst taxes—lt willabolifh invidious dif tinftions between States and their citizens—lt will fix the value of the State securities and bring them into operation as a circulating medium—lt will give opportunity to the States to attend to the improvement of their internal police, and will more than any o ther measure 1 have contemplated constitute us in fa& a nation, a great, flourifhing and happy people." He concluded by observing, that should any number of the Stares fund their debts, which at this very time was attempting by some, the difficulties in the attainment of this desirable object would be greatly encreafed. THURSDAY, FEP.. 25. In committee oj the whole. The ajjumption oj the State Debts Jlill under con ft deration. Mr. White said he felt himfelf rather in a disagreeable situa tion, when he rose to oppose a proportion which was countenan ced by so many refpettable patrons. He thought the original pro portion on the table would however be less exceptionable by the adoption of the amendment proposed by his colleague (Mr. Madi son) becaufc it would remove some of the difficulties that other wise would rcfult from it. In stating his objettions, he remarked, that if he understood the meaning and force of the proportion, it would have this effect, that the States who have made exertions, and nearly paid the whole of the proportion of their federal debt, should, notwithstanding, contribute to the payment of the delinquenres of others ; this ap peared to him tobeuniuft. To have a tight view of the matter, none of the Statfscould properly be conlidered as creditors of the Union, unless they had contributed in a greater degree than was required of them, in proportion to their wealth and number of citizens. Toillultrate this argument, he would suppose that the proportion of theexpence for MalTachufetts and Virginia should each be 10,000,000, then if MaflTachufetts (hall advance 15,000000 she would be a creditor for 5,000000, whereas if Virginia should have advanced no more than the 10,000000, than (he would have paid no more than her just proportion, and could have no demand on the Union. Again, if (he had advanced no more than 000000 ftie would justly owe 2,000000, which Congress could not aflume to pay without injury to the other. He therefore thought it just, that whatever sum might appear 011 the liquidation of the account to have been advanced by a State beyond its equal proportion, that that fliould be affumcd by the Union, and no other. He had also an obje&ion to the amendment, by which a door was to be open ed for all claims; th/s might induce the States to bring forward claims thereby the public debt might be unduly increafcd. For the States generally thinking themselves creditors, it would create a jealoufv, and there would be a general searching for and admit ing of claims, to rhe great injury of the Union. This inconven ience he thought would result. Other incpnvenicncies might p'occd from this circumstance ; in fomeof the States the creditors might relufo to accept the proposal : He thought this would be the cafe in Virginia, because in that State their debts wefre well funded at 6 pr. cent. and the intercft regu larly paid ; fuppoling this event to take place, what would be the coniequence ? tne State of Virginia would have to levy taxes to pay this intercft, and at the fame time contribute to pay that of other States; difficulties might aiifc Qn this ground, that to him appeared (Wious It appeared bcthe intention of thelloufe to fund all thedebt, and to make no arrangement lor the difchargc thereof; this he could not approve of. Perpetuating a public debt, he did not con ceive advantageous to any country. Gentlemen seemed dazztfd with thefplcndor of Great Britain, supposing her profperitv i< owing to her debts ; but the-- rcverfe is the cafe—it was her peculiar circuniJUmc<« which ei abled her to lupport her debts—tljather wealth and power weic owing to the fpint and indullrv of her inhabitants—to J»cr natural advantages of foil, climate, and situation, and to the great Security of proper ty under a free constitution ; that however, were he an Englifh rnan, he would tremble for the event : Sure he was, that at a per iod not very remote, the nation must fink under the weight of the debt, or it mutt be wiped out with a fpunge to the ruin of thou sands. The fnme confluence mightfollow the perpetuation of the debt in thefeStates, though the period might be more remote. If the States were left to thcmfclves they would pursue measures to ex ttnguifti the debts; this was an object desirable to accomplish. The State of Virginia he knew had cxtingujftied more than «,coccoo of dollars of her public debt. But Virginia was not alone, there were other States he believed, that had also effc&ed a considerable diminution of their debts. Jt had been urged, he fa id, as an argument in favor of the mea sure, thaf unless these debts were a (Turned, that some of the States would be induced to Jay and thereby put it out of the power of the government to nife money fiotn that fouree ; hut the excise and the impost would not do ; no adequate provision for the payment of the intereil could be drawn from thefc lources. The Secretary had proposed to raise the duty on various articles; but his calculations did not reach a provision tor the State debts ; he had only contemplated those of the Union. How then was the State debts to be provided for ? Would Congrefslevy a land tax ? As to raising the import, it was a measure he dreaded ; as the du ties now flood he believed there were no attempts to evade them by smuggling. But if they were raised, the revcrfe would take place ; and if the people once becamc habituated to smuggling, it would be impofiible at any future day to reform them, even by lowering of the duties. With refpett to dire# taxes, he wiftied the committee to consider how that would be relished throughout the Union : He thought it would be contrary to the general sense of the people. When they accepted the Constitution, it is true they knew it contained a power to levy taxes ; but it was not ex pected that this pouer would be exercised in the present fkuation of the country. It would leflen the influence of the States : They would be reduced a degree lower than they should be, while at the fame time the general government would be elevated on their ruin.' This would be unjust and impolitic. The freedom and happiness ot America depended as elTentially on the State govern ments as the general government —perhaps more so. It was an interference between a State and its citizens ; and attaching them to the general government without the consent of the State. It had been said by a gentleman from New-York that it was easier for one body to draw forth the resources of the community than for a diftinft number of legiQatures—this was true ; but he asked if it would l>e administered on the principles of freedom and independence. Congress may be properly the supreme coun cil, but not the supreme legislature of the United States. Their legislative powers were circumscribed and confined to particular obje&s. Because it might be more convenict>t, it did not follow that Congreft should for that reason exercise such authority. It had urged as a reason for the afTumption of tbefe debts, that the continental securities had in general been purchased at low rates, and had centered principally in populous cities—and that the people would not be fatisficd to pay taxes for them, and have their money continually drawn into these cities—unless the State debts were adopted, whereby the taxes would go back a gain into tbc~rcniote parts of the country. He said he was sensible that the people would very ill brook the payment of taxes when they saw the amount flow into the hands of a few individuals. That he had mentioned thrs in a former debate, and which would have been remedied had a mode which he thought equitable to render them diffufive been adopted. But the measure was over-ruled ; —the present he thought unjust and therefore could not agree to it. It had been said that the legislature of South-Carolina had de clined making provision for her creditors, in expectation that Congress would afTume her debts—he did not doubt the intelli gence—but how the legislature of a State could conceive that Con gress would afTume to pay her debts was to him extraordinary— sure he was that Congress had never exprefled such an idea, and he hoped that things had not yet taken that turn, that whatever was devised in the cabinet, should be agreed to in the legislature —No regard therefore ought to be paid to what South-Carolina had done. But a gentleman from Maflachufetts supposed that it would not lessen the influence of the State governments, that, on the contrary, it would he an advantage to them.—That it was an old do&rine, out of debt, out of danger.—But the measure did not place the States out of debt—they were Hill to pay it—the means of pay ment being only put into other hands—Sir, said he, if I was in debted on an open account, and I remain in poflfeflion of my es tate, and was able to pay it, would it be any advantage to me to give my creditors a mortgage on my land, and put him into im mediate pofleflion of the profits of my eftatc. Is the cafe not ap plicable—we do not propose to pay the debts of the States but with their property. Is this conferring any favor ? Surely not. He would propose, in order to bring the matter to a point, that the assumption of the State debts fliould be confined to such parts only as appeared to be a surplusage, that any State (ball have ad vanced beyond its just and equal proportion of the expences in curred in the defence of the common rights of America. This surplusage to be ascertained on a liquidation of the account. Mr. Lawrance observed, that it appeared to him that the result of the plan proposed by the Secretary would be exactly what the gentleman had in view—-He stated a particular example to (Hew that the operation would produce the fame effect. He therefore thought tl>e last amendment unneceflary ; but the amendment proposed yesterday he acquiesced in, he supposed it would meet the approbation of gentlemen in all parts of the union —He answered the'obje&ion refpetting the importance of the Statesretaining their debts, that the legislatures of them may meet and have something to do, in providing for the payment of those debts—he did not believe that it was considered by the people as neceflary to the importance of the States, that their legislatures fliould meet merely for this purpofc.—He answered other objec tions refpe£ling the interference with the State governments—the funds he had no doubt would prove fully adequate to all the purpo ses for which theSecretaiy had designated them without any necefli ty for direst taxes, those he trusted would be left to the States fort he lupport of their particular governments. He concluded by ob serving that the more he contemplated the measure, the more he was convinced ot its propriety, its justice, and its economy—he doubted not that every part of the union would chearfully acquiesce in every measure th. t append to be necessary to be adopted to piomotethe general interest. Mr. Moore.—Mr. Chairman, said he, I cannot understand the propofuion now on your table, in the fame light in which the gentleman lsft up has stated it; nor can I think its effects will be the fame with that which my colleague has now offered. If I understand the different propositions—by the firft, <very citizen in the United States may bring forward his certificate, and loan it to the United States; on which he is intitled to an intcreft ; his claim is to be alfumed and funded. The amendment proposes, that, after an adjustment of all the claims of the States, has been made, that Congress will assume the 'payment to each State, what ever (he may appear to have paid, on a final settlement, more than her jufl (hare or proportion ; but leave it to the States to pay their refpe&ive citizens, their ciaims, in whatever mode they please. In the one cafe, Congress only assume the balances due ; in theo thcr they assume the whole debt. Sir, I think wc have not fuf ficiently ascertained the amount of the debt ; this ought firft to be done, before we alfume the payment. The Secretary has Hated to us the supposed amount ; I make no doubt he has obtained everi poflible information on the fubjeft. B.ut even fuppole him to be in poircfiion of the amount of the fettled claims in all the dif ferent States, it would not ascertain it with futficicnt certainty It is proposed that the acts limiting the settlement of claims (hould be repealed ; that further time (hould be given to claim ants to come forward. Gentlemen appear impressed with the justice ot this proposition. To what extent are they likely to be increased ? II gentlemen will only consider the number of peti tions that have been presented to Congress, by claimants whole claims appear to be just, they will be fatisfied, that when the bar to settlements is removed, many new claims will be brought for ward, and the debt will be increased far beyond the present ftate mcnt. Sir, before we alTume the payment, vie ought to know that our resources are co-extensive with the demand, under every polfible diminution that ran in the nature of things take p'ac- Should we now assume them, and our means be inadeqtiaie to the end, I know not of nny procedure that could more cffeflually ruin the credit of the United States.—But mv principal obictlton to the original proposition is. that wc shall be obliged to lav a direfttax. What are the resources the Secretary intends propo ang ? They oughi firft to be brought to view. I remember well -382- when the import bill was before us, Wcw*retoldby gentlenrn well informed on that fubjeft, that if we increafcd the duties it would defeat our purpose ; that if would promote . that on foextenlive a sea coast, where we have so many harbors °it would be impoflible to prevent it, if we raised duties so to make it the interest of the merchant to fmu«rgle. We wer* likewifc told, that laying the duties too high would prevent the coniumption, and tend to defeat the revenue. Gentlemen then brought forward every fubjett they could think of, as proper, on which to lay a duty. I conceive thai if we aflume the entire debt, no additional duty adequate to the payment of the interest of the whole debt, can now be laid ; we mud lay direst taxes A gentleman yesterday observed, that a revenue migjit be col letted by Congress with more convenience than the States, at less expence, and more effectually. I think we cannot lay a dire# tax in a manner so convenient to the citizens, at so small an expence ; or that the collection will be so effe&ual. Sir, lam of opinion that the immediate representatives of the people in their States can lay a tax which the people can more conveniently pay : Tliev can accommodate not only the fubjefls of taxation, but the tunc of payment, more to the convenience of the citizens; they are bet ter informed of their circumstances, and their representation i 9 more equal, than in this body. Sir, I will not undertake to fay it is unconstitutional ; but I know it is contrary to the light m which the constitution was contemplated when it was adopted. The words of the Constitution are, That Congress shall have pow er to impose duties, excise, and direst taxes, to pay the debts of the United States. I believe Congress, from the firft forming of the confederation, held up a diftindtion between debts of the United States, and State debts. I have not had recourse to the journals of Congress so as to be certain that this diftinftion has been uniformly made ; but mftan ccscome within my knowledge which prove it. In the requisi tions to the Slates the diftin&ion is made. The State of Virginia from her indiscriminate mode of adjulting state and continental claims, has been refufed a settlement of her claims against the Uni ted States, and commiflioners are appointed to ascertain her claims against the United States. Sir, I think the fr3mers of the constitution contemplated the payment of the debts of the United States only. But from our a (Turning the State debts, they become debts of the United States, and we are to pay them. I remember well when the constitution was under difcuflion in the convention of Virginia ; the power of imposing a direst tax was warmly opposed : The advocates for its adoption, ftatrd that requisitions weie found to be ineffe&ual—that occasions might happen in which such a power would be necessary—that it never would be exetcifed but in cafe of neccflity ; but we are about to attempt it when no such neceflitv exists. If that convention had supposed it would have been attempted at so early a day, I think they would not yet have adopted the constitution. Mr. Chairman, gentlemen complain that their citizens are op pressed with taxes : They fay that from their extraordinary exer tions during the war, they have incurred a debt far exceeding their just proportion. I think the amendment proposed by my eoJ league, (Mr. White,) will do them ample justice—whatever furti they have paid over and above their jurt proportion, Congress will pay. Leave the payment of their just proportion to themfclves ; this is all that justice requires. In the mean time the proposition will not reftiain us from availing ourfelvcs of every resource in our power, and if there ttiould be a balance in our Treasury, after paying the debts we have already affumcd, we may apply it te the payment of the debts of the States. (TO BE CONTINUtD.) WEDNESDAY, MARCH 10. The committee to whom was referred the pe tition ofGifford Dally bro't in a report which was read, agreed to, and referred to the committee of appropriations. The petition of William Bedlow was read the second time—lt was moved that it be refered to the Pofi-Mafter-General. This was objeifled to, as eftablifliing a bad pre cedent ; it was said tliis is not the only instance where public money has been made use of, in con - sequence of which officers in this department have become delinquent—Congress cannot interfere in the present cafe but in a due course of law— and if relief is now granted, the applications will be numerous ; the course of justice will be diver ted from its regular channel, and every public creditor will think himfelf ill used if he should not be indulged with a suspension of the public demand again ft him ; fnch indulgences it was further said, had produced very pernicious ef fects in some of the States. In favor of the petitioner it wat said that he had been unexpectedly difmifled from office, and-that he was liable to pay a very extra rent in conse quence of engaging a house in a central situati on to accommodate the public, in the discharge of the duties of his office, and that it appeared reasonable that he ihould have relief in this in- fiance The motion for a reference te the Pofi-Mafter- General, was negatived. It was then moved that it be referred to a spe cial committee, which palled in the affirmative; and Mr. Benfon, Mr. Fitzfimons, and Mr. Ames were appointed. The report of the secretary of the department of war, on the petition of Colonel John Ely, was read the second time ; this report was in favor of granting the prayer of the petition ; which was for coinpenfation for services rendered the prifonerson Long-Island, in the capacity of fur geon.—lt was moved that the report fliould be ac cepted—This was objected to, it was said by Mr. Livennore, that he did not conceive that the pe titioner was entitled to pay in the double capa city of a surgeon and colonel. He received his pay as an officer in the line of the army, during his captivity—if he had a profeffion which he could exercise at that time, he was in a better situation than many of his fellow prisoners ; and probably did exercise it to his private emolument, among the people on the Island : If he had not been a prisoner, he could not have exercised the profeffion of a phyllcian and a colonel at the fame time, and draw pay in both capacities. It would be eftabliffiing a precedent for others to apply; and in all probability, every surgeon who wore a commission, that happened to be taken prisoner, will set up a similar demand—he was disposed to
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