jiiftice done their more diftrelled bretherli; those who fold, did 2: in molt instances from neceflity, thoi'e who hold at present are the more wealthy. The fame gentleman has observed, that had the market price risen to 20s. that this plan could not Liave been' adopted. 1 allow the difficulty .which would arii'o, but contend that in that cafe the public faith would not have been discharged ; but the cafe is the reverse, the hoafe knows the the market price, and has it within their compass todo jultice. But, fays the gentleman, tliefoldi er might have kept it to the present moment, and then it would have been worth the 20s. Unfortu nate, foolifh soldier, indeed ! Why didlt thou not lteel thy feelings against the wife of thy bofoin, and behold thy beloved children without a mur mur or an exertion, ftrayingon a dunghill ? then thouinigheft have kept thy nominal 20s. until it became a real one. But is this the language of jnercy, or of justice ? what will a man not give in exchange for his life? and, if he has feelings, for that of .his wife and children i But public opinion is vague, fay gentlemen ; and the house has been cautioned againit pam phlets and newspapers, as if the plan had been composed from thence. The abilities of the ho norable gentleman will give a ferions refutation to this charge. For ftij parr, I have the candor to afl'ure the gentleman that I have takes hints, and that I always will take hints, whilst in public life, from any valuable information given in ei ther : like the berry on the brier, if I could pluck it wirhfafety, I would ; and, if a valuable hint is encircled with a torrent of abuse, I would accept the hint whilst I would despise the remainder. Sir, fuid he, public opinioh divided us from Britain ; public opinion induced us to oppose her arms; public opinion induced us to change the formerfor the present conllitution ; publicopini on brought nshere tolegiflate; and public opi nion can replace usinour former lituations ; and however public opinion may be censured bj some gentlemen, 1 trust she never will need an advocate on this floor. This public opinion is in favor of the original creditor ; it is impossible to be otherwise. The people of America are a grateful people, and they cannot, with indifference, view the earnings of those who cftablifhed their independence con verted to the coffers of the weal thy and ambitions. The speculator is already more than fatisfied, if it is only on the principle of interest which has ac crued for 6, 7 and 8 years pail, and which they have speculated on since. Conceiving the objections raised by the oppo iition refuted, the next confederation is the im practicability. The gentleman that brought the plan forward, is more cJpable of answering the numerous obAi cles thrown in by the phalnax of orators yester day ; burl lhall undertake to anfvver a few of them. A gentleman (Mr. Boudinot) has declared it impracticable, because thequarter inafters of the late army, and the clerks of office, received the certificates in their own names ; and, as an in stance, quotes himftlf as having received large funis in that manner. Bur, are not the books, the documents remaining Is there not evidence still existing ofihe original creditor ? That gen tleman's own objection proves it. We will call him as an evidence ; and there is 110 doubt but mankind are not so debased, but that many o rherfimilar confeffions will come forward. Be iides, there can be a touchstone applied equal to what the highest court of equity used, and there is little fear but the truth would be found out, and a detection of the fraudulent claim. The impracticability, is out of the question, with re fpe<ft to the speculator, who would receive the highest market price. But the public accounts are many of them loft. Make it worth the time of the oiigiual creditor, anil this would be 111 a great measure obviated. Again, fays a gentleman (Mr. Sedgwick) the certificates are in ficftitious names, and he knows an instance in Bolton : then that gentle man is likewise good evidence ; and the claim, from his eftimony, would be invalidated ; but if nor, the fame equitable proof would be required. Mr. Jackson observed, that here, Proteus like, rhe gentlemen changed their reafoiiing, and de clined the public would be gainers by the mode. He) however, aflertcd that it would not be the cafe by their account. If rhe claimant did not come forward, lie could not contend that the public, not the (peculator, ought to be the gainer ; that the public here, would pofl'efsthe fame right as to an eitate left without an heir. But it has been advanced, that th: money would ba again genet ally dillributed among the poorer clasS of people, and that speculators would be fly ing to every part of the union to reap second crops. Sucli a dHli'ibution would be a public Welling, and by the lueafure, the tears of the af fliifted would be dried up, and the widowed heart be made to sing for joy. The leflbn I believe lias been now taught, and will prevent the ex tremes of speculation in future. The second crop cannot be fu injuiions to the coinm unity, or prove so plentiftiJ au liarveli to the fpectilator, as the 'jfifU. It is neceiTary, it is laid, and we shall confe quenrly have an host of officers. Mr. Jackson deuiedthat neceflity : and there are numbers of officers in the treasury department who might at tend to the business; and a small fee, which -mould be cheerfully paid, would find officers, if necrjjary, oj rcfponjibility and char after in the different jlates But it is an ex pofl falio law. This I deny to be the cafe : no law has yet palled for funding the debt ; we have a right to fund the debt as we please. §ome gentlemen, oppofedto the present principle,join the Secretary in opinion for lower ing the iniereft; we have leen threats, under that idea, not to fund at all ; and we cannot compel subscriptions without the holders consent. It is again laid, that if government do this now, they may take tile fame ltep hereafter : this, is reasoning on lunnife. It is not probable, if witnin the sphere of pollibility, that America will ever have a debt in the fame lituation. Loans, if exigencies should arise, will be procured on ade quate provisions ; and foreigners, from viewing our justice and the unanimous resolve refpediing them, will place a value and dependence onus. If America is wife, said he, few wars will arise; fituatedas we are, in a remote country from the warlike nations of Europe, the wars we may ex pert will be with a few tribes of Indians ; great loans will therefore not be required. But, fup polingall these poliible exigencies, thefoldier is as neccflary a requisite as the fupp/y : will hetruft again your broken faith? The gentleman from Maflachufetts [Mr. Ames] has charged the favourers of" the motion with church-yard terrors ; with what propriety I can hot judge, unless that gentleman, like a man pas sing through a church yard saw an apparition, and had the iinpreffion so strongly on his mind that he infilted on it that all his neighbours saw it also. The dangers that have been magnified are on the other fide. We have been told of the ijs. in the pound, paid by foreigners in Holland ; and one gentleman (Mr. Gerry) has denounced a gainit us the terrors of the ultima lex rcgnum. Are we, laid he, independent or not ? If we are, we have a right to modify our own debt. What would Britain or Holland fay, ftiould we interfere with their funds ? Would they not suppose us deprived of reason, or laugh at our imbecility in attempting it ? Thole who have purchased in our domeitic funds are on the fame footing with our own citizens. If wc art not independent it is high time to make ourfelvesfo, whatever pow er might oppofeus. The gentleman who brought forward the motion, has been charged with ad drefling the palfions : this might be retaliated ; for declamation has been used for argument on the other fide. Equity, said lie, if the cause be equal, will fuf fer, in. many instances, the heart to decide. The gentleman from S. C. (Mr. Smith) has declared, that what he has seen written on the fubjeift had been as much on the one fide as 011 the other ; if so, the heart, in this instance, ought to govern ; and gratitude and humanity,its noblest principles, are in favorof the driginal creditor. 1 havebeen said he, against the funding principle at this present moment ; byt as the house has determi ned on it, it becomes my duty to acquiesce, but 011 principles of honor and justice, And it is to be remembered, that the landholder of America is the person ultimately to pay this debt, and his property will be mortgaged for it ; for although commerce may immediately supply the revenue the landholder' is the consumer : 1 therefore hope the debt will be funded 011 principles coil genial with their wilhes. That class of people, when they contemplate their independent situa tion and their domestic happiness, although they would revolt at the idea of filling the pockets of the speculator, will cheerfully advance their pro portion for the payment of the soldier and the citizen, whose exertions have procured them the bleilings they enjoy. Mi. White fail] he agreed with '.he gentleman from Massachu setts (Mr. Sedgwick) in the principle, that if a contrast is made for a valuable confederation, and with the understanding of both par ties, the legiflaiute ought not to interfere in it; an<fihould it ap pear that the tranfa&ion, between the original holders of certifi cates and the purchaftrs, was a fair one, the dispute in his mind was at an end ; but 110 gentleman had attempted to (hew that this was che cafe, though all the arguments against a difcriminatiou were founded on that supposition. Perhaps it might be said, that every argument ought to be coufidered as fair, uniefs the contrary be proved ; but wheie one man has obtained the property of ano ther, to the amount of iool. for iol. orial. 10. the tranfa&ion, he said, mult be explained to him, before he wou d belie- e it to' be honcft. What was the prcrent cafe? The ; original holder.', who have parted with the evidences of their debts, were principally common soldiers, militia-men and farmers, in indigent circum ftancts. Who were the puichafers ? , The Secretary°of the Treal fury tills us, that the molt enlightened among our citizens are the crcditois ot the Unittd States ; common soldiers cannot be com prehended in this description. What mult have parted, he allied" between the soldier, the militia-manor farmer, and the purchaser? Whatrealon could the purchaser assign for offering iol. for a pa per which lpecified an obligatisnto pay iool. ? I; mult be fomel tl.ing like this : The dates will nrver pay you ; if they do, it will be at a very remote period, so long as to be useless to vou • but to relieve your present neceflities, I will take the rifle, on myfelf and give you id. Now, could any enlightened man, he asked in 1783, or atanj lubfequcnt peiwd, in which time the transfers took place, believe that the inuefjtudence of America was in dan ger ? or that the debis wimid not be provided for ? He laid he knew so many mfbncts of tranfaflions like that which he had stated, that lie doubted not the greater part of cc tificatsi had been obtained by limilar means. Indeed he could :iut coucuVc any other by which they could be obtained 562- Kc fa id we were perhaps without a prcccdcnt in any other n tion that would be applicable ; but he dehred gentlemen to <l~ termine for them selves, whether, under such circumstances th" man who had rendered fcrvict;, to his country should be deprived of his reward, or whether the purchaser ought to receiver M fa;d it was viry different In the common tranfa&ions of life If a man purchaled a tra£bofland for toool. paid the money, and took, a boud for the conveyance, a third peifou, by informing tnc uui chalcr that the feller could «ot make a title, or by other taJi'c Jai gcltions, should obtain a transfer of the bond iu consideration or tool, and get a conveyance and polfcflion of the land ; yet, on re paying the 1001. the conveyance would be fct aside, and he would be rdlortd to his land. Mr. While gave f ime other instances of a iimilar nature j' said he believed, if a. bond, whether du;, or to becomc due ' aHigncd under such circumstances, that the obligee would b '' 'ft" fiable 111 coiittftmg it in a lourtof law, and that the injured oaf ~ would, on application, obtain redrcfs. He laid, that m cases °f extreme hardlhip, courts ol equity would give relief without preli proof of fraud. That this was the law of the kincd"' of Great Britain, and was agreeable to the principles Q f t |, e J?? law. That the Roman jurills, he believed, had fixed the pointof extreme hardship to one half of the value of the property uansfc ed ; in England the court was to judge. He said he did not thinkthe present holders were (triply CWi _ tied to any thing more than the original purchafcrs: That her the maxim quoted on the other fide of the question, that the it fignce Hands in the fhocsof theafligner, properly applied : You cannot place auother on more advantageous ground than that on which you fknd yourfclf: That the plea of an innocent pufcha fer could Hot take place; the nature of the transition must in pear evident to every man concerned ill a transfer. He said the reverse of this did not hold : That an affiance w * not always in as advantageous a situation is the affigner -"and i'' ltanced the cafeof his testator's bond at an under value; and wt."' he said, could not retain in his hands the amount of the sum fj' cifiedtn the bond, which the creditor might have recovered hnr only the sum which he actually paid for the bond. Mr. White said, that though in his opinion the present holder, of certificates were ftriftly entitled to no more than what had been paid to the original holders, yet—as an invefti* ati on of th« circumftanee would be involved 111 inextricable difficulties and finee we were (as had been verv properly observed and we'll « prefledbv a gentleman from S. C. Mr. Burke! fettling the bufinefc ol a family—he was willing to acqutefce in the motion of his col league. He said x that arbitrators often gave the injured pmv lels than his due, for peace fake ; and he was willing t® afi oi» the fame principle. He doubted not but courts ofjulhce would »ive relief in particular cases; but, in a matter of that magnitude" he thought the interference of the legislature very proper. The S Sea business he thought, in that j-efpefl, a good precedent. Two gentlemen had mentioned the bufin-fs: he would notlaythevhad miftated the traufaaion, but he thought their accounts imnerfefl They said they had the documents under their hands; he wished they had been read ; he had t hem not, but would state from me mory what he thought applicable to the cafe in question. The directors of the S. S. Company, by variout arts, induce the peo pie to give as high as toool. for 1001. (lock; in many ii.stances the money was paid, in others it was contrasted to be paid. A gentleman has said, that Parliament interfered not to violate but to perfe&the contract: But whit did parliament do ? They' con fifcatcd the eftatcs of the directors, and applied the amount to the relief ol those who had aflually paid their money, and fufnendci suits agamft those who had not paid ; and authorised the debtors to discharge their debts by the payment of 10 per cent, er the real value of the (lock fubferibed for. But if he was wrongin fuppoluig the present holders ought toftand in che place of the firft purchasers, they could be considered 'only as having purchased in market, a paper of indefinite vjlue : if then tbey get the hieheft market price, they arc not injured. (To be continuedj MONDAY, FEBRUARY 22. Mr. Schureman prefen'ted a petition of James M'Corab, rcta twr to certain inventions, which was read. The amendments of the Senate to the bill for enumerating the inhaoitants of the United States, were read. The enumeration is to commence on the firft of August next, and to be com pleated withinnine months. Returns to be made on or before the firft of September, tjgr. The second schedule was ftruek out by the Senate; these amendments were agreed to excepting those which reduced the compensations The oiderof the day being called for, the House went into a committee of the whole on the report of the Secretary of the Trrafury. * The que ft ion being put upon Mr. Madison's amendment to the second resolution, brought in by Mr. Fitzfimons, it was negatived by a large majority. Ihe question on the second resolution was then put; several amendments were proposed, which were negatived,and the refo uuon carried in the affirmative without amendment, viz, Ke'.olved, That permanent funds ought to be appropriated tor the payment of the interest on, and the gradual difchar-e ok* the domestic debt of the United States." The third resolution was then read, viz. Resolved, rhatthe arrears of intereil, including indents.issu ed in payment thereof, ought to be provided for on the fame terms with the principal of the said debt." Mr. Lee proposed an amendment, " (hat appropriations of the lands in the Western Teritory be alfigned for the purpose of dif chargmg the interest due on the debt of the United States." This amendment was not seconded. Mr. Gerry faid,that it appeared to him that the indents, in the evera tate ireafuries, and which thro negligence have not been paid into the Public Tieafury agreeable to the requifnions of the ate Congress, ought not to be included in the provision. He mo ved an amendment to the resolution to that purport ; Thisocca 10,"eu con siderable debate ; but the motion was finally negatived. I he queltion on the third resolution was then put,' and carried without amendment by a large majority. Ihe fourth resolution was then read, viz. " Resolved, That the debts of the fefpeftive States oaght. With the con lent of the creditors, to be alTumcd and provided for bjr the United States." It was then moved that the committee rife, &c. which motion was adopted. A melfage from the Senate, informing the House that they recede Iron, their amendments to the enumeration bill, which had been dilagreed to by the House. Also, that the Senate have accepted of the ceflton of territory made by the State of North-Carolina; in which acceptance thev request the concurrence of the House. memorial of the commissioners for fettling accounts be ween the United States and the individual States refpefting the a ariesof the Clerks in their office, was read the second time, and referred to a committee of three, viz. Mr. Gerry, Mr. Trum, bull, and Mr. Goodhue. The House then adjourued. TUESDAY, FEB. 23. A report from the Secretary of the Treasury on the petition of rancis Bailey was read—this report dates that the invention of LP""' 0 "" 111 typographical printing may in their application, e oer the pernicious practice of counterfeiting much more dil icult than It has heretofore been—that the request of the peti loner, to be employed in using his invention in the public fer t"bl' " to 'he discretion of the Legislature—laid on the In committee of the whole House on the report of the Secrs« tarv of th- Treasury. r Mr. 3cnfon in the Chair.
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