CONGRESS. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. DEBATE ON SLAFERY. Friday, March 23. The house being in a committee of the whole on the bill tor the amicable fettlesient of li mit* with the Hate of Georgia, and for provi ding a temporary Government in the Miflif fippi Territory : X :• R. 1 HATCHER rose, and said he IVi Ihould make a motion touching the rights of mam, by moving to (trike out the ex cepting clause in the 3d seCtion of the bill— [lt appears that in the ordinance eftablilhing a government in the North-western Territory, Slavery is expressly forbidden, and this secti on of the bill directs that a government similar in all refpefts to that eltabliflied in the North weltern Territory shall be established in the MiffiWippi Territory, except\hz.l Slavery (hall not be forbidden.] Mr. Harpfk did not believe his friend's mo/ioo would be a proper mode of supporting the 1 ghts of man. In the North-western Ter ritory the regulation forbidding Slavery was a vtry proper one, as the people inhabiting par of theto..mry were from parts where Slavery did not prevail, and they had of course nd II.W:-ainonglt them » but in the Mifliflip pi Territory it would be very improper to make such a regulation, as that species of pro perty already exists, and persons emigrating there froni the fouihet 11 States, would carry with them property of this kind. To agree to such a. proportion would, therefore, be a decree of '•art'Jbmcnt to all the persons fettled there, and ot exclufunX.oall those intending to go there. He believed it could not, there fore, b<* carried into effect, as it struck at the habits and cuitoms qfihe people. V?r. Varnum did not know that the gen tle.nan fiom !>. Carolina wilhed to promote the rightsutmaii: itions (hewed, at lcall, that he did not fvifh to Support the rights of ail itien ; for where there was a disposition to retain a. part ot our species in Slavery, there < <nld not be a proper refpeet for the rights of mankind. It was true that this kind of pro ■perry is held in the southern States—because they cannot, confident with the fafety of the people of those States, liberate them, on ac count of their very great,numbers. But they cpnfidered it as a great burden to-be obliged t) hold them. He hoped, therefore, Congress would have so much respeCt for the rights of humanity, as not to legalize theexiftence of Slavery, any farther than it at present exists. He believed the gentleman from S. Carolina was miiirfken, in faying that such a regulation would oblige all the inhabitants fettled in this t rritory to .".move. The provision need only cx -end'tw she forbidding ct slaves being taken .—What, said he, is the litnation ot the North-western Territory at this time ? Land tlier.- is worth r?)ore than in some of the old fettled' States ; "and he believed th'rshigh price of laud, and profperotis condition of the coun try, was entirely owing to ".he absence of Sla very. . A'.vl if the southern States could get clear of their slaves, the price of their land would in) rcd ately'deubie. At any rate, he honied the United States would prevent an in? crjiie or rliia calamity ; for he looked upon the , nu . ee of holding Blacks in Slavery, in thib'rountry, to be equally criminal with that of tl.e Algerines carry.ng our citizens into Slavery. Mi . Rutledge w'.fhed the gentleman from Maifacliufetts would withdraw his motion, not frotiv apyapprehenflon he had that it would obtain ; but he hoped he would not indulge himfett ,ind in uttering philippics a gairtfta piaCll'cc with which his and the rplii lofojvliy is at war. He submitted to the gen tleman's candour whether it was proper, on every occalion, to do this—to bring forward the southern States ,"111 an odious, light, or to give his neighbour and colleague an opportu nity of bringing thefu forward, and comparing them with Algerines! He thought propriety and decency toward otljer members required that such language (hould be checked. He believed, if his friend from MaflTachufetts had recollected, that the mod angry debate which had taken place during this feflion was occasi oned by a motion 011 this fubjett, he would not have brought forward the present questi on. One gentleman fays, you call these men property j .mother, you hold these men in chains ; a third, you violate the rights oj man ! And :re not these men property r Do not the people in this territory hold them as such ? Did they not hold them under the Spanish government f And must we thus address these people t "We have madea treaty which puts you under the mild government of the United States; but niuli take from you your pro perty : or rather, we must set your blacks at liberty to out your throats. The rights of man was the waWth-word of the day, and Congress have determined that you ftiall not poffefsthis property. They cannot, as yet, do Slavery away altogether—the day is not yet arrived j but tliev have determined it (hull not exist in the Mrltilfip pi Territory." These, said Mr. R. are not mere specula tive opinions. They lead to more mitchief than gentlemen are aware of; and he trulted ; if the gentleman from Madachufetts could be convinced that the difcullionof such questions ! as the present did much mifchief in certain I parts of the Union, he would not bring them forward. He hoped he would withdraw the present motion. Mr. Gordon thought, when the gentle man from Maifacliufetts recolleCted, that by the Cfiatilifhment of this government, the United Siates do not cltablilh their cxclufivc right to this territory, he would consent to withdraw his amendment, as that went to fay that we had the absolute right ofjurifdiftion, and were determined to exercise it; and in making a difference betwixt the ground on which property was held there from that on which it was held in Georgia, they would mi litate against the sth fettion of tlie bill. Mr. Oti s hoped his colleague would not withdraw his motion ; and the reason why he wished this was, that an opportunity might be given to gentlemen who came from the fame part of the Union with him, to manifeft that it is not their disposition to interfere with the southern States, as to the species of property in question. With respeCt to the exiltence of Slavery, the House had often heard gentle men, who are owners of (laves, declare that it is not tneir fortune, but their misfortune that they.pofTels them, but who Hill keep them, and claim the right of managing them as thfy think proper. He thought it w-as not the bu fmefs of those who had nothing to do with that of property to interfere with that light; and he really wished that gentlemen v.Tiolield slaves might not be deprived of the means of keeping them in order. ff the amendment prevailed, it would de rlrtre that no Slavery should fxilt in tjie Nat chez country. This would not only be a sen t/nee of banidimer.t, but of war. An inv.ne il .i'e infurrertion would probably take places md the inhabitant* would not be fitffered to itt re i:> peace, but be massacred x>u the spot. By permitting Slavery in this dirtrlft of cdun. tty, the number or (laves would creased—as if emigrants troin Sout', Carolina or Georgia were to remove thl ' s cullMry | hey would take their i.-vesw,,!, them ; and he could lee l,ie ' Pb'unthropy or his friend. The North we i crritory is inhabited by a description of persons who have ngt been accustomed to hold Haves, and therefore the reftrittion is a greeable to them ; but the territory in question vyill be fettled by people froin the font hern States, who cannot cultivate the ground with out slaves. He hoped, however, the motion would be p'ertifted in, and negated by a large majority. Mr. D. Foster hoped, if the motion was not withdrawn, that a long debate might not be had upon it. * Mr. 1 hatcher falu he should not with draw his motion, and the more it wasoppofed, believing his cause to be good, the more ob>- flinate he should be in its fujjpor'. Mr. Giles wished to fuggeit a idea. The prefient motion was brought forward from the avowed motive of furthering tiie rights of man. He did notknow whetherthe tendency ot it was calculated t6 ameliorate the condi tion of the class of ni«n alluded to ; he be lieved not. On the contrary, it was his opi nion, that if the Haves in the southern dates were permitted to go into tiiis western coun try, by lelfening the number in those (tales, and spreading, them over a large fuiface of -ountry, there would be a greater probability of ameliorating their condition, which could never be done whillt they were crouded toge ther as they now are in the southern. fUtqs. Mr. Hartlev said, he hail bimfelf in tended to have brought forward an amend ment similar to the present; but on enquiry, he found so many difficulties in the way, that hewasobliged to abandon it. He found it would interfere with, and be a feriotis attack upon the property of that countty. He was sorry it was not in the power of Congress to gratify the wishes of philanthropies in this respeCt, by doing away (lave'ry altogether ; but this could not be done at pre(Vnt, and as he believed the present amendment, ifcarried, , would be attended \vith bad effects, he (hould vote againll it. Mr. Ga li. a tin. If he saw any of the great inconveniences which were foretold as likely to ante from thisauiendment, he should certainly vote againfl it. He (hould be extreme ly averse to the adoption ot any principle, which (hould either directly or indirectly,lead to the production of any commotion or insur gency in any (fate where there is a great num ber of (laves. He did not fee f#vv any such effeCt could be produced by the present mo tion ; for, notwithdanding what had fallen from the gentleman from S. Carolina, it did not appear to him how a regulation with re speCt to another territory, can affect the peace, tranquility, or properly of any other (late. How the forbidding of slavery in the Miflifip pi territory, could produce a worse effeCt than the fame regulation in the north-vve(tern ter ritory, or in Pennsylvania, or in several other Itates ! 1 lie amendment therefore, could not be oppofedon that ground ; it inu(t be upon (omeother. Ought it to be rejected on the ground of jurisdiction f Certainly not. The United States intend to exercise jurisdiCtion over that territory, and was there any more reason for excepting this jurisdiction than any other ? Ifweeftablidi this government, w6 exp?Cf it to be permanent; and if we believe it is not conducive to the happiness-os any people, but the contrary, to legalize slavery, when we are about to form a con(titution for a territory, its efiablifhnient ought to be pre vented. But, if this amendment is rejected, we edablifh (lavery so the country, not only d rringits temporary government, but for all the time it isa (late j for, by the condanf ad midionot (laves, the number will inpreafe to a certain degree, and when the territory (hall beiome a (late, the Interest of the holders will be fuch,as to procure a conditutiontf hich shall admit of (lavery, and it will be thereby made j permanent. Having determined (lavery was bad policy for the north-wedern territory, he saw no reason fur a contrary determination with respect rothi6 territory. 1 here was, then, only one folitafy objection to the amendment, and that might easily be obviated. It was with respeCt-to the fitua •ion of people already fettled there who are polleffed of llaves. It would be extremely impolitic and unjust to declare by ordinance that the people fettled there, either under the British, Spanidi, or Georgia governments, (hould be deprived of this kind of propeity ; and if this w'as the effect of the amendment, he would vote against it. Such a regulation would be attended with the word of conse quences ; but other words may be ea(ily in troduced to guarantee the property of the per sons already fettled there. By the laws of the different (fates, Mr. G. said, the importation of (laves is forbidden ; but if this amehdment does not obtain, he knew not how (laves could be prevented from being introduced by way of New Orleans, by persons who are not citizens of the United States. He hoped, therefore, the amendment would be agreed to. Mr. NicHo las believed it not only to be the interest of the southern states, but of the United Stages, that this motion (hould be re jected. They were to legidate for the whole of the union, and ought to consult the happi ness of the whole. It was not for them to at tempt to make a particular spot of country more happy than all the relt. I fit was a mif fortune to the southern (fates to be over whelmed with this kind of property, he asked if it would not be doing service, not only to them, but to the whole union, to open this western country, and by that means spread the blacks over a large (pace, so that in time, it might be fafe to carry into effect the plan which certain philanthropies have so much at heart, and to which he had no objection, if it. could be effected, viz. the emancipation of this class of men. And when this country shall have become fufficiently populous to be come a (late, and the legislature wishes todif countenance (lavery, the increase of slaves may be prevented, and such means taken to get rid of slavery altogether, perhaps in con junction with other parts of the United States, who by that time may be in such a (ituation as to admit ot it, as (hall appear prudent and proper. Mr. 'I hatcher was of opinion dire&ly opposite to the gentleman jult fat down. In deed they feldoiu did agree in fentinient : to day they differed very widely. He believed the true interest and happiness of the United States would be promoted by agreeing to this amendment; becatife its tendency was to pre vent the increase of an evil winch was acknow ledged by the very gentlemen themselves w{jo are owners ot (laves. Indeed the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Nicholas) had fiequent ly declared in that House, that llavery was an e*»i of great magnitude. In this respeCt they agreed in opinion ; for he conlitlered the ex lltence of (lavery in the United States, as the greatest ot evils-*-aa evil in direct hoflility to the principles of our government; and he be lieved the government had-a Tight to take all due meat ares to (tini.iiifli and deftray the evil, although, in doing it, they might injure the property of Ibme individuals , for he never could be brought to believe that anindividuat. tail have a riglrt in any thing which goes to | to the dedruition of our goVefmnent, viz. ' that lie cap have a right in a 'wrong. A pro perty in (laves is iottnded inierong, an<J n<;ver can be right. He believed governmeht mutt of .neceflity put a ilop to this evil, and the looner tliiy entered upon Ihe business, the better. Mr. T. said, he honedly confelTed, he did not like to hear much said in that House a bout the rights of man ; because, of late,there had been much quackery as to these rights. But because these rights have been abused, it did not follow that man has no rights. Where j legislators are freely cholen by the people, , and frequently renewed; where a law cannot | be palled without alf.iting the intereds of the ! perfonswho pass it, these righticannot great j ly be abused ; but, when we take iiiwn us to legillare for men against their will, iris pro per enough n> fay lonvething about the rights of ni«n, and to remind others, who are fre quently h<-.ird speaking of these rights, that by nature these enslaved men arc entitled to rights ; and on that account it was, whir) he ; made this motion, that he said he would make ; a motion touching the rights of man. I '1 he ivafbnsoffered against the amendment : by the gentleman from Virginia, were a little ; lingular. He contended that certain Hates were overflowing with slaves, and if not colo nized, by opening this wide traClof country to them, they would not be able to keep or ma j nage them. He himfelf always tho'ught that colonizing these people tended loincreafe the race, far beyond what it would be when pen ned closely together. Mr. Giles explained, by faying, that he had said nothing about decreasing the number of blacks, but of fpreadmgthem over a larger furface of country, j Mi. T. said, lie understood the gentleman's _ argument perfectly, thoirgh he d.d not seem 'to understand it himfelf. The gentlemen , wished to take the blacks away from places where they are huddled up together, and spread them over this territory ; they wished to get rid of them, and to plague others with them. But they had them, and if they de termined to keep them, he wished only they should be plagued with them. We are, said Mr. T. about to e.lablifh a government for a new country. Ours orig'iA nated from, and was founded on the rights o] mail, upon which ground we mean to protest it, and could there be any propriety in ema nating a government from ours, in which sla very is not only tolerated, but fanidioned by law ( Certainly not. It was tifed as an argument against this a mendment, that this territory would be peo pled by emigrants from the southern dates, who cannot work for themselves ; • and on that account thay rnuft ha'<e slaves to work for them. If this be true, it makes the peo ple of the southern Hates only fit to fuper initttdjlaitcs. The language of this is, that these people cannoifubjtjf, except they have slaves to work for them. For the reasons he had dated, he hoped the amendment would be agreed to ; but if gen tlemen thought those who at present hold slaves in the territory should be protetfed in them, he should not be opposed to their hold ing them for a limited period. The quefiion was put and negatived, there being only 12 votes in its favour. Monday, March 26. The Speaker laid before the house a com munication from the General PoftOflice, con taining a statement of the compcnfations al lowed to deputy post ma'der. for the year palt, which was referred to the committee on pofi offices and post roads. He also laid before the house a communi cation from the Treasury Department, inclo sing an account of the receipts and expendi tures of the United States for the year 1796, five hundred copies of which the communica tion stated would be deposited with the Clerk of the house.—Ordered to lie 011 the table, Mr. Baer presented the petition of Law rence Averhard, a sergeant in the horse, during the war, praying for compensation ; Mr. Gordon also prefented'the petition of Preserved Clapp, for compensation for ser vices, during the war ; Both of which were referred to the com mittee of claims. Mr. Brooks presented the Memorial of the New York Chamber of Commerce, da ting that the present critical and inauspicious date of this country had excited geaeral con cern, which concern had been much incre lfcd by the late official communication from the> President of the United States; that this date of things called for the belt measures of de fence which could be taken ; that the pre sent defencelefs date of the harbour of New York is such as to invite hoflility, and that a place of such confequencc to the Union ought to tie put into a strong poiture of defence; they, therefore, pray that their fortifications may be completed, and furnifhed wi-th artil lery and military dores.—Referred to the committee for the protection of commerce and defence of the country. Mr. Kittera presented a petition from inhabitants of the county of Huntingdon, in this date, dating, that they viewed with con cern a flefect in the lawsof the United States, which fuftered persons employed by the Uni ted States, after they were discharged from office, to publidi with impunity the secrets of Government, and praying that measures may be adopted to prevent this evil in future.— Referred to a (elect committee of three mem bers. This reference was carried 39 to 37. Mr. D. Foster, from the committee of' claims, to whom was referred a motion to en quire whether any, and if any, what altera tions are necefTary in the aits for the relief of Invalid Pensioners, made a report on the fub jeft, containing a variety of reasons to (hew, that 011 the ground of judice and policy, it is not expedient to any alterations in the eliding laws on that subject. The report was committed. Mr. Sewali., from the committee on com merce and protection, to whom was referred he message of the President of the United States relative to the depredations committed upon a velfel in the harbour of Charledon, reported that there could be no doubt of the fails being as dated, and that it was another indance to prove the neceflity of taking mea sures for the protect/on of our coad. They, therefore, report a resolution authorizing the President to build and equip , eallies, or floatipg batteries, for that purpole ; which was referred to the committee of the whole on the date of the Union. The House again resolved itfelf into a com mittee ot the whole on the bill for an amica ble settlement of limits with the State of Geor gia j when, after drikingout the words claim ing under it, in the «tn section, and adding two new fictions, the committee rose, the Houfa concurred in the amendment.', and the bill was ordered to be read a third time to morrow. One of the (eCtions was moved by Mr. Milledlfe, and was in the following words : " Thaufrom and after the cfiablifhinent of the morrow said govrtnment, the people of the aforefaid terri tory, shall be entitled to, and enjoy, all and lingu lar the rights, privileges, and advantages granted to the people ef the territory of the United States, north weft of the-river Ohio, in and by the afore faid ordinance of the 13th day of July. the )' ear 1787, in as-full and ample manlier as the fame are pofiefled and enjoyed by the people of the said last mentioned territory." The other, moved by Mr. Harper, was to the following ed'eCt : " That from and after the establishment of the as refaid govrnement, it shall not be lawful for any person to import, or bring into the said territory, I from any part or place without the limits of the , United States, any slave or slaves, on pain of for -1 feiting 3CO dollars for every slave so brougut, one helf to ihe United States, and the other half to the person who lhall sue for the fame, and every slave so imported shall be entitled to and receive his or her freedom." When this seCtion was proposed, Mr. Thatcher moved to llr.ke out the words 'without the limits of the United S/ates, so as to have mace it unlawful to have brought any Have there, but the motion was not seconded. Mr. Sewali. wilbed the House to go into a committee of the whole 011 the bill from ihe Senate to authorize the Preiident topurchale one or more toimdenes. It was well known the United' States w'cnf very deficient 111 can non, which could not be got, he bel.eved in abetter way than by giving the Piefident ihe power proposed. Mr. Harper wilhed the gentleman from Malfachufeits to futfer his motion to give way to one which he pro'pofed to make for going into a committee of the whole 011 the report of the committee of ways and .means, relative to the appropriations for the military edablilhment, as there was .at present a num ber of officers in the city waiting tor their pay, w' ich they could not receive, until the appropriations were made, as the 100,000 dol lars which were appropriated 011 account, had been already expended. Mr. hoped the House would go in to a committee of the whole on the date of the union generally. The House had re ceived a melfage from the President a week aga of a very alarming nature, which he tho't it was time to notice. He was himfelf ex tremely anxious to know what it was the ob jeCt of gentlemen to do in this business. Mr. Gallatin said, if there was au im mediate occalion for making appropriations for the military edablifhment, lie should not oppose the motion of the gentleman from S. Carolina; but on the firft of January there was a very conliderable balance unexpended, and therefore he believed it was not necefTary to take up this subject at present. Mr. Sewall thought, that if there was 110 balance in hand, their could bc'no difficulty in paying the officers, in confidence that an appropriation would be made. It was imme diately neceflary to attend the subjeCt of pro curing cannon, as the frigates could not go to sea until they were got. He did not know that they could immediately be furnifhed by the means proposed, but he fuppofedit would be necefTary to adopt such a measure in order to feccure,not only the present but future sup plies. As to going into a committee of the whole on the date of the union, he did not know that there was any immediate necedity for that. He did not know that it was in tendec(,to take up any particular fubjeCl which had been referred 10 that committee. He hoped they should fird take up one proposi tion, and then another, until the whole were agreed to ; but he thought it firft proper to takp up the bill from the Senate, which was referred to a separate committee. Mr. T. Claiborne said, if a number of officers were waiting in the city for their pay, he hoped the business of appropriation would begone into, as to keep them 111 the city on expences was to diminifli their pay. As to the Founderies,he thought it was time enough to take up that subject ; he himfelf should be decidedly opposed to the measure. Mr. Bald win underdood that a motion to go into a committee of the whole on the date of the Union had preference of every other. The Speaxer said it had ; but he did not hear the motion seconded. Mr. B. laid he seconded the motion. He thought the houl'e had aited very properly on this occalion. He was pleased that they did not, immediately upon receiving the Presi dent's meli'age, hurry into the subject, but that they had taken time to refleft upon it. He was sure, however nothing that he could fay could fiiew, more forcibly than the meC fage itfelf, its importance to the intereds and happinefsof the United States. He thought it was now desirable to go into the bulinefs as calmly as poflible, ar.d begin to exchange their sentiments upon it. It is a subject 011 which the citizens of the United States are at this time deeply engaged, but tbey justly look up to their Repreleniatives as having the bed information on the subject, to learn what is to be the ilTue of their deliberations. He wiflied their anxiety to be in some measure relieved by an entrance being made upon the discussion. He confelTed he had never witnelT ed a period which called so loudly for atten tion, as the present. He could not remove the fubjeCl from his mind; he not only thought ot it when in that house; but when he lay on his bed, his thoughts were (till en gaged upon it. Indeed, no man who had the good of his country at heart; could help being deedlyad'eCled bytheprefentfituationoltliings. He hoped, therefore, the house would resolve itfelf into a committee of the whole on the date of the Union. Mr. Otis. It was well known that he had been uniformly of opinion, that the House ought, from day to day, to go into a commit tee of the whole on the date of the Union, and he was gratified in hearing the fame sentiments from others. He thought the fubjeCl ought not to be delayed. The motion was, howe ver, unexpected from the gentleman who brought-it forward. He could not fay that he was prepared to go into the subject to-day. As there feeraed, however, a greatdefire, from what had fallen from the gentleman from Geo rgia (every sentiment of which he concurred in) to go into this business, he should be willing to-morrow to enter upon it, when he hoped they should go into it with one heart and one consent. As the appropriations for the mili tary department were pretty much a matter of course, he hoped that bulinefs would be got through to-day. With refpeCl to the motion of his colleague (Mr. Sewall) to go into the fubjett which he proposes, Would be in fub dance to go into a committee of rhe whole on the date of the Union, as it is intimately con nected with subjeCts referred to that commit- ' tee. Mr. Harper trusted the gentleman from Georgia would give him credit, when he as sured the house he had as great a desire ro go into a committee of the whole on the date of the union, as that gentleman, or any other; but whilst he felt this desire, he also knew that it was necefTary to pass the annual and usual appropriations tor the military establishment. As to the surplus which the gentleman troin Pennsylvania had mentioned a.i unexpended ort the fird of January, that had been paid for ' theferviccj ot 1797. He hoped, therefore, ' the motion forgoing into a committee of t|it : whole on the (fate of.the union would be withdrawn, until, this .business was gone 1 through ; afterwards, he fliould be one of the . lad persons to objeft to it. Indeed, he re joiced to find that gentlemen now felt that anxiety on account of the of this country, which every good citizen could not help feeling. Mr. J. Parker hoped the military appro priations ' ouid be proceeded with, otherwise it would be impofiible to comply with that law which fays tli£ pay of the army (hall jievcr be two months in arrears. Nobody would be more aeady than he to go into a committee of the whole on the (late of the union ; he hoped the house might do this to-morrciw. Mr. Macon concurred inopiuion with the gentleman jurt fat down. Mr. Giles had no particular objection to the. bufiaefsjying over till to-morrow. Eut nhffl the Pre/ident sent his inefTage, it was to be ixpected some notice would be takenof it. Prom the bell judgment he could give it, it involved the queliion of peace c/vvar to this country ; and he thought gentlemen mult be prepared to fay which of the two Hates they wilhed. With respect to the congratulations of gentlemen that others seemed no» sensible of the perilous (ituation of our country. He confell'eJ his fears had long been awakened in this respect ; all he believed were imprelTed iwi'.h the critical situation in which we itand, but there is a difference of opinion as to the means of extricating oiirfelves. He had al ways been in favour of every nece.lary mea sure' for the defence of the country ; butop pofed to all extravagant meafut'es. He ffiould (till act in the fame way. The other motions bring withdrawn, the house resolved iJfelt into a'couuuittee df the whole un the report of the Committee of Ways and Means on the appropriations necef, fary for the Military filUblifhuient, for the present year ; when the blanks were filled with the funis ediinated to be nece'lary by the Secretary of War, until the article of subsis tence came under consideration ; when Mr. Gallatin moved to ftrke, out 25 cents per ration, for the purpose of inserting 20 cents, which was the price charged Ijtft year, and provisions were rather fallen than risen in price. Indeed, it was observable, that the rations had every year beeu advanced a few cents; in 1795, they were charged only 15 cents, lad year 20 cents, and now 25. Mr. Harper, believed ra'* is might begot at 20 cents ; but it was nect ,ry for the con tractors to deposit fix months provisions in ad vance in the different polls, which occasioned a considerable expcnce ; ans besides this, it was cudomary for friendly Indians to visit all the pods,and whenever they did so, it was ne cefTary to entertain them. He supposed the additional ive cents were to make up for these two eircumftances. It would remain with the committee whether they wonld allow the: additional five cents, or hereafter make good deficiencies, as they found it ncceflarv to do for la ft year. Mr. Gallatin said, that there would be no need to take into account the lix months advance of provisions, as that was included in the deficiencies which were now to be pro vided for; and if a greater number of rati ons was wanted, it fliould be so ex prefl'ed, and not add co the price of the rations. And if rations were to be provided for the Indians, they ought to be put under a diltinft head, j and not under the head of subsidence for the officers of the army. In 1797, indeed, there w as under the head of the Indian Department, 100,000 rations at 20 cents, which was the j proper way of placing the business. If rati -1 ohs could be got at 20 cents, and they were charged 25, the overplus-would not go to t,he purposes which had been mentioned ; but the officers, who received money, instead of rati ons, would receive 25 cents, inflead of 20. Mr. Harper consented to the price being fixed at 20 cents, and after a few observations from Mr. J. Williams in favour of 20 cents, and of having the allowance for the Indians mentioned separately, the motion was put and carried. It was proposed to appropriate 3,ooodollars for three additional temporary agents, to trade with thelndians. Mr. Gallatin moved to ftrilte out this article He thought there was as many agents already aswete ufeful; besides the law confined the expence in this respeCt to 15,000 dollars, so that if these additional agents were to be pro vided, itnwd be by a supplementary law. Mr. Harper said, whether two additional agents are necefTary or not, is mere matter of opinion, and he .was inclined to take the opi nion of the President and Secretary of War, before that of the gentleman from Pennsylva nia. Mr. H. in lifted upon the Presidents' right to appoint more agents, if he thought them necefTary. The motion to drike out was carried 34 to 29. Mr. Harper moved an additional item of 100,000 rations at 20 cents, underthe head of the Indian department, for the use of the In dians who visit the pods, which was negatived 28 to 27. The item of 169,000 dollars for cannon and arms, was agreed to be omitted, and consider ed in the bill which relates to the purchasing of founderies. Mr. Harper then proposed two additional items to make good the deficiencies of lad year, which were agreed to in blank. The committee then rose j and the house took up the amendments reported by the committee. All were agreed to until the Quarter Mader's Department came under conlideration, when Mr. Ga llatin moved to drike out 200,000 dollars, for the purpose of inserting 150,000. A great part of this expence, he said, was in curred if transporting our troops from one place to another, and now they were dation ed, he thought the sum he had mentioned would _be very ample. Indeed, he fliould not have been in favour of so large a sum, only that some vefTels would be necefl'ary to be built ,m the Lakes. Mr. Harper said, this appropriation was included lad year along with tne Indian De partment, Defenfive Protection, Bounties,&c. for which 300,000 dollars were appropriated, and they found there was a deficiency of 50,000 dollars. He could not fay under what head this deficiency arose, but it was chielly under that ot Quarter mader's Department. As the edimate was 200,000 dollars, he hoped that sum would be agreed to, as the Secretary of War was more likely to know what was ne cefTary than any gentleman in that house c Juld be. Mr. G a llatin contended,that on a com parison with the expences of former years, the sum he proposed, was quite large enough. The deficiency of last year of 50,000 dollars, which the gentleman had mentioned, ought not to have taken place. 'I he Secretary of> War was not judified in expending more in these contingencies than was appropriated (except in cafe of neceflity) otherwise the Se cretary ot War, and not Congress regulated the expenditure of money. It would be ne cefTary to enquire into this business, and ex cept some prefling necellity could be Ihcwn for going beyond the appropriation, lt«
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