however imperJWl'Viat moic might be, still he Delievid, that it v.as the only one that had re ceived the fsiivftion of experience and utility. He tlf efure hoped, that the resolution would be refuted, and Che mode already adopted per- Itverol in, and the ncceOary information called for in writing, from every perlbn any ways in terelltd or competent to give it. Mr. W. Smith lupported the relolridon. He Ihewed by the report iti'elf, and from the rea lor.iiig uled by geutlemtn in opposition to the resolution, tnat the two secretaries were impli cated ill the caul'es of the failure of the expediti ng { ro in hence he inferred the julbice and pro priety ot giving them an opportunity of excul pating theitilelycß. Mr- Gerry exprefled surprize at the apprehen sion which lonic gentlemen appear to entertain of the :n; alt. If ox introducing the heads of de partment into the nouie; for his part he had ■ho such appreheufious. The secretary will at tend at the orders of the house, luureiy to give Inch information as may be retired, and not as members or miiiiflers, to influence and govern ■the determinations ot the house. Mr. Venable objected further to -he resoluti on he urged the impropriety of any of the heads of departments coming forward, ar.d at tempting 111 any way to influence the delibera tions ot the legislature. Mr. lanvrance replit d to Mr. Venabie ; he abferved that the gentleman appeared to mil take the object of tnc resolution, it was not con fempUted that Either of the iecretaries should appear on the floor of the house, to influence, lu any degree, its deciliuiMi; they are to be cal led on merely lor information. Mr. Murray objedted to the resolution. The report, he observed, is made to the house—is in the course of its difcuilion any futther light or information ihould be deemed neceifary, it may then be cailedfor, and in that mode which lhall appear moil eligible—at prcfent the question ap pears to be premature. Mr. Murray added leveral or her remarks, and then the que (lion being put, Mr. Wiliiamfon's rnotiou for ilriking out was carried. IVednefday, November 14. Sketch of the Debate on the metion for recommitting the Report. Mr. Madison fuggeited that the most simple, apd confident plan would be, ;o recommit the report of the Sele& Commit tec, and refer the preleat application;>* to the Committee, to whom the report&all be re-com mitted —He therefore moved that the Commit tee of the whole ihould he dtfeharged from con sidering the report on the eaules of the failure of the late expedition.—Mr. Smith (S. C.) ob served that fevera! ohje&ions {truck him in op pofttioa tp this motion. The House must at some period laid he, meet this buiinefs ; if it is recommitted, here will be an impropriety in re ferring it to the fain Committee, if a new Com mittee is appointed they mull begin the whole bu/inefs de novo; and if their in veil i gat ion should take, up such a length time as that of the lormer committee the i'elfion will be expen ded; and at the close of it, the business will recur on the house, and tfie fame difcufiVon will be to be had, that is now proposed—He hoped the house would therefore proceed in the considera tion of the report, aflign two or three days in the week for the purpofc, and continue the in vestigation till the whole is finifhed. Mr. Giles replied, that he had no doubt that the vouchers on which the committee had foun ded the report would appear fuffi«ient to juftify the decifioxis that they had made. He laid, that he did not fuppole that the applicants would ad duce any new information—one of them had been called on, he attended the committee, and he supposed that he had furniftied all the infor mation he was in possession of. He obje&ed to a re-commitment, as one of the committee he was perfectly iatisfted with the report; nor did he conceive there was any additional evidence to be produced, except it was of a recent date. Mr. Ames said, he perceived such a difineb-na tion to go into the business as indicated a pro per temper oi mind in relation to the perions fuppoled to be any ways interefleri in the ulti mate decilicn of the lioufc He was opposed to * recommitment; as it would procrastinate, in Itead ot expediting the enquiry. He adverted to the report.—Fa els are ftatcd, the public have been left to draw the inferences, tlie committee have not explicitly criminated any body; but ttiey have determined, in feverai instances, who Moot to blame. What is the fiiuation of those who are implicated in the cause? of the failure? Every citizen knows, that in consequence of the Ofue ol the expedition, clamours the War department, inrcfpectto Indian ait'airs, have rung through the continent, should public offi cers, who have been placed in iituariona of such importance be silent, andfubniit calmly to such imputations, they would be un Worthy of puh - I .c CUj if'dence— unworthy to breathe the vital * Ir Ihey now apply for an opportunity to be heard.in their own vindication. Shall they be ent to a committee-room, and make their de ence against the allegations b: ought forward to t eir difad vantage, which have been published to the world, in the hearing of perhaps ten or a v ozen perfon.s only ?He hoped not —-he thought jtuuee to them, and to the public required, t.iat fjiey should b to make their dVfefire in j-ie face of the, world. Will not precluding them . "* lc a to smother ali further enquiry into the bufinelb? 1 ' Mr. Bmdwm was in favour of recommitting, e aid it was thu mofh eligible mode, and was coni. nant to rhe pradtice of the houfl*. Mr. Madilbn remarked that it had been said, I portion wis di/"covered to smother the en- Uir ' ' ll r --piy he observed, that if be wilhed to prevent a thorough inve(ligation, helhouldbe in avour of the who;,: bulinefs being undertaken byjxc houle, becanie, he < blerv ed, that if a ie- Letters of the fecrerary of war anduuarter- ;!:tTr t "° f * foWmembers seven weeks t form income ! e o ,n ' thM .l" : 1 ;" g'ct tl',rough the bufiuefs. He fur ~r„ T Ur l eU 'r thc ,JUIC rj * lo a lifted for r ' _ rn '* r -fiJueof tlir evidence to a feJed as induced the mcifure in the firil commit: inflance | Mr. Frrfirn'msfaid h, was at firft in favour jot a recommitment; but on further confilera tmn he was convinced the houle would be able to get through the bufincftin a (horter time tl.au a ieleJt committee. He added several other rea sons which induced him to be in favour of the houie proceeding with the report. Mr. Gerry said it appeared to him that the only qneftion leemed to be, whether the houfc or thfleled committee lhall efUblift the fails? these lafis arL established by the committee T"u n 1 5*, ve c l ual as if they were eftaWilhed by the house? He < onceived it would not; but should the result be acormftmn on the part of the house, that some of the officers arc culpable, will the house reft an impeachment on the report of the committee ? He conceived the house ought to found their decisions on fads as certained by themselves. It has been laid there is no diiference between the house and the com mittee : If this is the cafe, does it not imply a cerafurc by the house on certain fhara&ers? He thought it did. It therefore becomes the house to difcufc the report that it may be determined on what footing it Hands. If, in the cafe of a con tested ele<sUon the house revolted from the idea of Submitting their judgment to fa&s fubflanti ated by a committee, the cafe before us is of unlpeakably greater magnitude, for thel'e and se veral other reasons he hoped the report would not be recommitted, Mr. Williamfon was in favour of the motion for recommitting ; he supported his opinion by the uniform pra&ice of the houfc, which in eve ry cafe where new evidence was adduced, always provided that the new evidence should be exa mined by the fame committee, who had original ly brought in the report. He said if this mode was departed from, we should find no commit tee would bring forward a state of fa&s in fu- j He thought it was not treating the com mittee with proper candor to decide on their re port in its present situation. ture. Mr. Sylvester observed, that the resolution of the house at the close of the last session, that they would take up the business early in the pre fcut session, precluded a recommitment—he was therefore oppoled to the motion. Mr. Boudinot w?.s in favour of a recommit ment, he said, if there is new evidence to be brought forward, the house ought to wait fill that is received and reported at the Clerk's ta ble ; ami this he conceived ought to be done in the usual way, by a feletSfc committee; till the whole testimony i? completed it appeared to him the house was not prepared to take one step in the business. Mr. Madison replied to Mr. Gerry's allusion to the cafe of the contested ele&ion. He enqui red of him whether the house itfelf went into an investigation of fa&s in the firft inftamx ? believed he would not fay thst tliey did. With refpedt to the memorials, he enquired, whether, if they had been presented at the time of the investigation of the fubje& by ths felecft committee, they would not have been referred to rhe committee; if they would then have been thus referred, the fame reason exists for referring them to a fele& committee at theprefent time. Mr. liawrance was of opinion, that a re-com mitment wouM tend to a saving of time; the committee will not he obliged to go over the fame ground agjiin that has already been explo red—all they wiil be obliged to do is, to invef tigatc the new testimony which will be adduced. He hoped therefore, that the motion would pre vail. Mr. Giles said, that the proceedings of the committee were public, and that the secretaries could have attended all the time, had they fecn proper—They attended but once, and then ap peared extremely anxious to get away, to attend to their offices. The committee would have been extremely glad to have had thofc gentlemen pre sent oftener, and to receive all the information they could give—and supposed they had done it. Mr. Gerry replied to Mr. Madison; he said, if gentlemen would recur to the proceedings of the house on the contested ele&ion, they will find, that the house expressly reserved to itfelf the rights of fubilanriating the fa£s, which should appear from an examination of the de positions, taken in conformity t* the resolutions of the house; and here he adverted to the mode pointed out by the house in taking thole depo lition.n. The adverse party was to be summoned to attend to the taking them ; but in this re port it appears, that exparte evidence has been admitted as the foundation on which some of the decifjons have been made. Mr. Murray lupported the motioij for a re commitment. Heobferved, that the business in its present (late was so incomplete, that he could not fee how the house could proceed upon it. One part of the evidence only is finifhed, Mid the report is made on that evidence. Now, we are told, new testimony is offered; let the whole be brought into view at once, and then the house will be in a situation to judge. Mr. Page was in favor of a further comriiit mentor the buiinefs; but whether to the com mittee who made the rej o t, or to a new com mittee, he lhould not take upon him to fay. With refpedt to the admiflion of any head of a department to the bar of this houi'e, except in caie of an impearhment, he would never confe'.it to it It would be a precedent of a most dan gerous nature, tending to a deftrudHon of all freedom of (inquiry by committees. Mr. Findley observed, that the committee wiflied tbi>t Mr. Hodgdon fhouldhave been pre-, lent, but he did not make his appearance; the committee therefore proceeded on the testimony they had, and as there is now new evidence brought forward, he thought it was proper that the report ftould be recommitted. An one of the 195 ait rin M aVC no to faeh •nil n " 4 "; ight a PP" r F ro P cr or. further and,nwre con,pleat invefligatfon of the business. , Mr, steeie called,for the reading of a clause j* the memorial of the Secretary of War, wh.eh rates that the committee had drawn conclufiom Iron, expirte evidence. This being read, Mr. Steele remarked on the want of candor towards ,the committee, which had been (hewn by some ot the members in thecourfe of their observati ons. He then advei ted to the above claufere pcx-nig ex parte evidence,and observed that with itlpcft to the Secretary of War, it was not true t nat the committee had proceeded on exparte e\i vticc; tnat officer said he, was notified of the meetings of the committee, he attended those ijKep.ngs, he furnifhed the committee with pa pers and documents, &c. ani further he was re queued to detainofficers in town whose teftimo »y \\ as necessary in the that he com p ained oi lome of those officers being detained by the delays of the committee from the recruit ing icrvice. With refpeft to M. Hodgdon, the ame cannot be said, as he was not then in the country. Mr. Steele then concluded by some addition rerr*arks on the indelicacy manifefted by some gentlemen in their treatment of the committee, and obierved that he did not apply it ro himfelf peiionally, but as it refpedted the Committee at large he thought proper to express the contempt whiclt he conceived it merited. Mr. Dayton replied to Mr. Steele, he repeat ed the ftibftance of his original remarks on the report, and added that in the courfc of the dif cufljon he should attempt to shew that the de duitions madein several parts of the report were falfe. Mj. D 1 yton added, that whatever ;he gentle man fall speaking might fay—as one cf the qom iii'irre who signed the report, he was certainly irT'plicwcd in whatever censure it merited. 1 he queflion for a recommitment was acrecd to, 30 to iz. Wednesday, November 14, Mr. Grove, from North-Carolina, took his feat tbia day. Mr. White moved that a committee be appointed to prepare and report a bill to regulate trade and intereourfe with the Indian Tribes.—Agreed to, and meflrs. White, Glark and Williamfon, were ap pointed. Mr. Orr presented the petition of praying compensation for public fer rices : read and laid on the table. Mr. Muhlenberg presented the petition of Griffin Jones, praying compensation for a quantity ofleather supplied the pub lic: referred to the Secretary of the Trea sury. Mr. Dayton presented the joint petiti on of a number of Canadian refugees : re ferred to nielf. Dayton, Bourne, (R. I.) and Murray. Mr. Goodhue reported a bill providing for the regiltering and recording of (hips and vclFela. j The petition ofjames Dunbar was read, on motion, referred to meff./iTucker, lAfhe and White. ; Mr. Fitzfimons was added to the com- Imittee on the petition of James Warring. <ton. ' A communication was read from the secretary of the treasury dating an esti mate of the appropriations requilite for the support of government for the year '*793- Mr. Murray's motion for the appoint ment of a committee to take intoconfide ration that part of the Prelident's speech vvhich relates to the transmission of newf papeis, and whether any, and what alter ations may be necefTary in the law for re gulating the Polt-Office—was referred to mefTrs. Murray, Baldwin, Gilman, Ames, and Barnwell. Mr. Lee presented the petition of Pa trick Dougherty and Bowles, pray ing compensation for damage fultained in their property during the late war : read and laid on the table. Mr. Gerry prtfented the petition of Mrs. Bond, widow of the Colonel Bond, who died while in the service of the Uni ted States during the late war : laid on the table. The following letter from the Secreta ry of War, was pre fen ted arid read : IVar Department, Nov. i." t , 1792. SIR, After the close of die lafl femon of Coagrefs, I saw with much concern the : r¥poAof the cominittee appoiuted to en quire 'into the causes of the failur'e of the expedition under-Major Get). St. Clair, of tfec Bth of May, 1792, which having been prefeiited to the house in thelaft moments of the session, was ordered »o be printed and has since circulated in the public newspapers throughout the United States, containing fuggeitions molt of them foun ded upon ex parte invelliVation, which have been underltood in a icufe very iuju rions to my reputation-. Learning that the prefentday was ap pointed for taking into corifideration the above-mentioned report—l luvr waited with anxious expectation for fouie act oi the houte enabling me to attend the piu grcio of the examination upon which iney are about to enter, for the purpose of fur nithing such information and explanation* as might conduce to a right underlUud ing ot lacls, in which I am to materially implicated—The failure of a pvopoGtioi which I am informed was nude to i,io house with that view, has auded to my li> licitnde and regret. I'll us lituated, I feel njyfelf called uj on to alk of the justice of the houle that some mode may be deviled, by whicn ii. will be put into my power to be pttient during the course of the intended liiquny, as well to hear the evidence oil which the several allegations contained in the report are founded, as to offer the information and explanations to which I have alluded. 1 o this (tep I am impelled by a per fualion that an accurate and iatisiatiory ihveftigation cannot otherwise be had with equal advantage—if at all. And my entire reliance upon the equity and impartiality of the house will not permit a doubt to exilt on my pait, that iuch an invefligation will be exciuliveiy the object of their desire and pursuit. I have the honour to be, Sir, With the highelt refpedt, Your mod obedient humble servant, (Signed) H. KNOX. 1 he Speaker of the honorable the Houte of Repreleutativesof the United States. A letter to the fame purport from Ma jor Hodgdou, quarter-maltei -general of the late ariny, was presented. i hefe being read, a motion was made to refer them to the committee of the whole house. I his motion was fuperceded by a moi tion made by Mr. Madifott, to ditcharge the committee of the whole from the cou lideration of the report of the lcleCt com mittee, and that the fame, with the docu ments relative thereto, including the me morials of the Secretary of War and Mr. Samuel Hodgdon, be iccommittedxo the fame committee. Tin's motion after a long debate wai cartied in the affirmative. A motion for an addition to the com mittee was put and negatived. THURSDAY, November 15. Mr. Sedgwick took his feat this day. The bill reported yesterday, providing for thi registering and recording of fcips or veflels, wa read the.firft and second time, and referred tos committee of the whole, and made the order ol the day for Monday next. A letter was read from the Secretary of War, conveying information refpefting Indian aii'airs in the southern quarter, communicated pursu ant to orders from the President of the United States. This information was communicated in a letter from James Seagrove, agent for the United States to the Creek nation. The read letter, which enclosed one from Mr. M Gillivray, was begun, but, without being fi nittied, was laid on the table. . Mr. Lee moved that the petition of Henry Bowes lhonld be referred to tiie Secretqry of the Treasury. This petition was for compen iation for lofles sustained during the late war. The motion was objected to;—this occasioned Clie calling for the reading of tiie proceedings of Congress relative to applications of this nature; and the report of the Secretary of the Treasury at the last feifion, on petitions of a similar de ftripuon with tnat now under confideratiou. Tneie being read, The .notion for referring the petition to the Secretary, after l'orae converlation, was ueza, tived. - " Mr. Lee then moved that the documents ac companying the petition Ihould be read : They were read accordingly. A motion was then made tor referring the petition to a select com inittee—which was negatived^ On motion of Mr. Orr, the petition of Richard Clunworth was referred to a (cleft committee, conlilhng of Mess Hartley, Greenup 1- Gordon. 1 he petition ot Giitord Dally, door-keeper to the house, praying compenlatsc i for extra ier vices, was re.:d and laid 011 the table. J he reading of the confidential papers being re fumed, the galleries were ihut. FRIDAY, Nov. 16. After reading the journal of yeftcrday's pro ceedings, a minion being made to rcfuine the reading o* the private papers, the galleries were doled, it wa» fuppoled the reading would be finilhed this day. To the Public. THE fubfcrihc*"h£gs leave to acquaint (hp puh- Jic in general, ar»d his cuftotners in particu* Jar, rh«jt he has entered into partncifhip witn |Mr. HENRY KAMMERER, and thai the Prinu juig bufiwfs in the ICrjt> 11(h and German is now carnrd on under the firm o\ STEINER and KAMMhRER, No. 85, in Race-street, bt* twrcn Second and Thii d-(lioe v .s. , The Ge»nun Newfp-iper will be published by* them, .is uludl, on TueMsys, and all kind of Prjn; ; irtg work, done wiih care an'i expedition. MELCHJOR STEINSR* A'<2:v£, : 792. Adjourned.
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