CONGRESS.
PHILADELPHIA
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SATURDAY, March 31.
In committee of the whole on the report of th; Secre
tary of th: Treafnry on the public debt ; the fijib
proportion reported by the feletl committee refpells
a further assumption of the State debts, was read.
MR. GERRY ofFered a few remarks on the
fubje<ft—and urged the jallice and found
policy of compleating a buiinefs which had
for reasons well known, been left in an unfin
ilhed state ; but which equity and precedent
now called 011 Congress to finifh.
Mr. Clark was opposed to the proposition
Mr. Hartley : After so long a difculfion my
attempting to take up any great length of time
would not be excusable, but I consider it my
duty ro fay a word or two in answer to some
expreflions and observations ui'ed against the con
stitution and operation of this government ; and
give a few realons why I (hall now vote for the
resolution under consideration.
it will not be necellary for to rake into view
the principles upon which the constitution was
framed ; they were fully examined in the ge
neral convention as well as the several State con
ventions, ank ltood the test of the ftridteft scru
tiny. They are favorable to liberty and justice.
As to tlie operation of the government we
may best understand it, by contrasting the state
of America at the adoption of the constitution
with the present day. At the former period our
credit as United States of America was at a low
ebb. Few of the individuals of foreign coun
tries would give a credit to the individuals of
this. The capitals of Europe would not be trust
ed in America.—They doubted our justice as
well as our government ; there was scarcely any
credit given to individuals here ; a nniverfal
diftrull prevailed. Agriculture languiflied ; the
farmer diffident—he had loft his confidence ;
the great fpuv to indultry was wanting.—No
(hips on our flocks, few veflels in your harbors—
commerce decoyed ; the vital spirit loft. I might
fay more—but I will turn from a difigreeable
scene to one more pleasing.
What is our present (late ? The credit of our
government is as good as that of any country.
Individuals of all nations will trust the individu
als of America. Individuals here (until a late
unfortunate bubble or abuse of credit, arising
from bad men or bad management and which
will poflibly only do hurt for the moment) gave
full credit to each other as far as their capitals
extended, as well in the city as in the country
and confidence prevailed.
Agriculture where the people are indtiftrions
and apply their attention to the raifiug of thole
articles which are most in demand, is in the
highest improvement ever known here before
I can speak with confidence of the State I live in.
The idle and indolent can expert no great
cess in an art which depends upon the (teady
hand of industry.
There are ships on the stocks in every part
where there are fliip-builders and materials. The
tonnage 1i 11 will evidence the mighty increase
of the American shipping ; It has far exceeded
the most sanguine expectation. Several of the
firft merchants state your commerce in a molt
refpedtable situation far beyond any other pe
riod. Indeed, the returns from the Secretary
of the Treasury (hew la iw great our imports and
how vad our exports.
In point of juitice our reputation (lands high
with the world. Our courts will do justice.
Pray what foundation for thole llrong afler
tions which have been made against
tution and the government ?
As to the funding system I shall fay little at
present. I much doubt if it deserves' the hard
names which have been given it. Abuses will
be committed in ail countries ; no human plan
can be secure against them.
The afl'umption of the State debts was fully
considered upon a former occasion. Severkl of
us wilhed to fund the debt of the union alone,
many gentlemen of the south when we came to
look for ways and means, voted against us, and
the eaftei n 1 eprefentatives were always ready
to join in defeating us, unless the aflumptiou of
State debts also rook place.
The bill pad the House of Representatives for
funding the debt of the union alone; but the
Senate lent it back with an amendment aHinninn
State debts to a certain amount. After much ar
gument the amendment of the Senate was agreed
to by the House of Representatives. Jufticewas
nearly done to some States ; others do complain
and 1 think Rhode-Island with much real'oii.
I could have wiftied that the accounts between
the United States and the several States had been
fettled. But I will give the gentlemen who
complain so much, an opportunity of fatisfying
this house (if they are able) when the blanks are
to be filled up in the bill, that the funis they de
mand-are reasonable and are intended to give re
lief to the people of their States.
1 will vote for the resolution
Mr. Find i-e y, in answer, faicl :—lf I am not
altogether so elated with our present profperitv
and resources, as my worthy colleague who is
jult (at down, laffure you 1 am not despond
ing 1 think our relources are competent,
and our circunidances not deprefled ; the great
indultry of our citizens, and the great de
mand and high price for our produce in foreign
markets, which took place about two years ago,
gave a spring to our wealth and industry, and
fornilhed ample resources to government ; our
feelings have not been pierced with the cries of
general distress, nntil very lately, through the
abuse of the novel principles introduced in the
funding system.
But though I rejoice with the gentlemen 111
the fufficiencv of our means, yet I consider our
selves in the (ituation of an unexperienced heir,
newly come to the enjoyment of a great estate,
who, being dazzled with his own splendor, and
confident of his means, sets about spending with
out fyltem or principles, and gets embarrafied
before he is aware.
We are told, that the principle of afluming
the State debts is already admitted by the lalt
Congress, therefore it ought to be completed
now ;we are juit told, too, that it was fully con
sidered there.
lafkrhen, Why was not the bnfinefs fully
complered at that time—if it was not, then what
good reason can be given for carrying it further
now ?—ls there any new discovery of better
rules to apportion by, or is the distress of the
States who have yet some unaffumcd debt, as
prefling as when they had to bear the burthen of
three or four millions more than now ? Gentle
men knew that the length thisbufinefs has gone
already, has given great uneasiness to those
States who made the grea eft exertions to extin
gui(h their own debts, and to whose circumltan
ces and feelings the resources applied to the as
sumed debts of the States, are diflreifing and
disagreeable.
For what purpose are the commifijoners em
ployed in adjusting the accounts between the in
dividual States and the United States, if the
whole of the State debts were to be afl'umed pre
vious to that settlement ? We know the govern
ment is not vested with powers to compel delin
quent States to do justice, and that if ever justice
is done to those States who have extinguished
their own debt, it must be by iiicreafing of the
general revenue in proportion to the money
Congress will have to pay to those States, and it
is an unjuflifiable and dangerous policy to draw
the money from the people with the one hand,
to pay ir to the state governments with theother.
I have such information as 1 can depend upon,
that the commissioners will report upon the final
settlement of the State debts, in the-courfe of
next winter ; and the resolution before the com
mittee makes no provision for interefl until af
ter the year 1792. Why then take this further
leap in the dark, when those States who will be
actually entitled to it, will be as soon relieved
according to the principles of justice, as thev
would be by diltributing the public property in
this manner by rule of thumb.
T always thought the afiumption of the State
debts a meafnre which the constitution did not
contemplate, and which had a tendency to sow
the feeds of discontent in many parts of the Uni
ted States, and now it is argued that the piece
dent being set by the last Congress we ought to
copy it :— 1 admit of no principles of infallibi
lity in Congress—and if precedents produce an 1
obligation, we ought to be the more careful ncft
to (trengthen them by repeating such as are im
proper or doubtful. The only plausible reaf'ow
for afluming the State debts in the last Congress
so far, was to ease the burthen of such States as
had been mod backward in providing for their
refpedive debts, so as that they might be able
to provide for what remained until I he accounts
would be fettled, and to make some provision
for the Srates who had done much to extinguish
their debt as a security that the debts would be
brought to a final settlement. Certainly tliofe
Srates, at whose desire, and for wbofe conven
ience so much has been done, ought to have a
little more moderation.
Mr. Madison observed, that a great deal had
been laid to prove that the general government
is under obligation to provide for the debts of
the individual States : The gentlemen who
maintain this opinion said he, have not shewn
that the creditors themselves ever entertained
an idea that they fliould look to the United
States for payment of those debts ; it is not pre
442
i (ended that ilie new constitution varies the fit ß
anon of . lie creditors-they It and precifel, "
the lame ground they did under the old confe.
deration. Mr. Madison denied that in"the for
tner aflumption the creditors of the individnal
States were considered in the fame point of light
as the creditors of tile continent, and for the
truth of this he appealed to thelaw itfelf " ma k
ing provition for the public debt."
The proposition now before the committee he
confiderekl as unjust as it would place fume of
the States which had made no exertions to ctif
charge its debts, in a more eligible fi'uatiuu
than those winch had made the greatelt exer
tions to efFetft that objetft. He denied that the
"rlt aflumption had been generally approved or
had heen acquieiced in—and adverted to'the
proceedings and resolutions of the State of Vir
ginia on the fubjetft j papers (aid he, are on the
table to (hew the truth of what is now aflerted •
he added that he was sorry to find that 110 more
attention had been paid to those papers. Mr
Madison then noticed the slate of imports and ex
ports from the several States, to ftiew the une
qual operation of the aflumption as it affetfts
those States, particularly Virginia,which pays f 0
great an overproportion of the interest on the
debts of some of the States.
Mr. Gerry stated a variety of instances to shew
that the debts of the individual States were al
ways considered as founded ultimately on the
faith of the union ; that the creditors had ta
ken the paper of the States on that idea—that
the States were considered as agents for the Uni
ted States—and on this principle the contracts
for l'upplies and services on a continental ac
count had been which the war
must have ceased, and the subjugation of the
United States have followed.—Mr. Gerry re
marked on the partiality and evident injolticeof
leaving the pofleflbrs of the remainder of the
state debts totally unprovided for.
The qneltion on agreeing to this proportion
was carried in the affirmative this day, 5? to 2J
but was eventually loft.
LONDON, March 5.
It isfaid the Lords will carry Mr. Haftings'sde
fence into the country with them during the rc
cefs, and think upon it at their Jeifure. Weflioitfd
rather presume that they havefufliciently thought
upon it already.
Extrafl of a lett:r from Paris, "Jan. 26.
" The prodigious and progreliive fall of the
exchange 011 Prance in every commercial place
in Europe, is but too true n consequence of the
immense decay of credit, which mult e-ifue from
the fort of chimerical government under which
we live at present, in our way to the better fort
of government we were promised by this afton
idling revolution. —It will come no doubt ; but,
in my opinion many eflential changes in thepre
fent conftrudiion of the machine mull previonfly
take place ; till then it will be the lotos the present
generation to be totfed about on a very rough
sea indeed.
" Tlie relotn'ce of afTignats, which consider
ing their excellent security, when used in mo
deration, might have proved thefalvation of the
country, finee they actually enabled the National
Aflentbly to do at Jeaft one whole year without
taxes, independent of the redemption of a great
part of the debt ; those aflignats, I fay, have
proved poison in the hands of the weak and the
wicked ; for inflead of using them sparingly and
temporarily as a gift from heaven, to fiin/h and
fettle the conftitntion, they have leaned on then
as on a very convenient pillow, and cared much
less about reltoring proper force to government,
which wai, however the only certain means of
enforcing the payment of taxes. They go on
digging into the mine till at la(t they find the
quick ; they are not near it neverthelcfs, for
the church land is worth fullchree milliards and
an half [a milliard is iooo millions] equal to ip
millions flerling, of which one milliard remains
at illiie, besides the immense valueofthe forells,
which, without injuring the interests of the navy,
may yield perhaps twenty millions fterhng-
What a country ! surely tlie moll exalted imagi
nation could not bave wished for a richer foil
for improvements and remedies of every kind,
had they been but well husbanded."
NOOTKA SOUND
Many abfnrd reports having crept into the pi
pers on the fubjec't of the indemnification to be
given to thole gentlemen who fuffered by the
capture of their (hips, it is neceflary to state the
aiftual progress of this affair.
The Spanish agent or Envoy, who is now here,
had it in commiilion to enquire the amount o
the damage follained, that is, the value of the
ships, their cargoes, See. This was ftatefl at
ijo,oool and this sum he is autliorifed to p*y-
But the fufferers make another demand ; W " )C ,
is, tlie Aippofed profits that would have accme
by the trade, for initance, carrying their furs to
the China marker. The Envoy fays, he has no
commission to allow any thing for this loss a"
here the matter Hands for the juefent.