\ CONGRESS. PHILADELPHIA. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, THURSDAY, March 8. Debate ou the resolution reported by a filed commit tee—That the Secretary of the Treasury be direcl edto report his opinion to the House, on the befl mode of raising ihofe additional supplies "which the public service may require for the current year. MR. STEELE observed, that a motion to bring forward a bill for repealing the law esta blishing the treasury department, would afford a proper opportunity for the display of that ora tory which the House had been entertained with yesterday and to-day.—But on the present ecca fion, he conceived the remarks werenot in point. He observed that it was customary with thefirft Congress, to make references of fubjecfts of this ns. ture to the Secretary of the Treasury ; the pre sent Congress has done the fame—and he had heard of nothing that fuggells a fufficient reason to deviate from the practice. All the reports that have been received, have been attended to, investigated, and scrutinized with a zeal and di ligence, which have not marked the conduct of the House on the reports from fele<3; committees —He is-ftanced several reports of the latter rle fcription,to which little attention had been paid. The independence of the Honfe has been mani lefted in refpecft to reports from executive offi cers, even from the highest ; and hetrufted that on all occasions the House would continue to sup port its independence of chara<fier. He fhoulcl always rejoice in an opportunity to oppose eve ry report from the heads of departments, when his judgment did not approve of them. >. He contrasted the present conduct of those op posed to the motion, with their conduit on the bill providing for the defence of the frontier*— Every one who now opposes this proposition, was in favor of almost a« implicit adoption of the re port from the Secretary of War—Heoppofed that report —but these gentlemen now oppose the molt obvious mode of devising ways and means to de fray an enormous expence, brought on the coun try by that very bill. Mr. Murray oblerved, that on fiich a question, his object should be to pursue what appeared to him the wisest mode of raising taxes—ln agreeing however with the resolution and its reference, he could neither fee danger in the precedent, nor surrender of confticutional right in the con sequences—As to the privilege of originating mo ney-bills—When waysand ineansareto be fought for, his firft objecfl should be to gain all the in formation the delicacy of the cafe demanded The duty of exploring the resources of a coun try, as yet untried in many of its objedts of tax ation, was certainly the buflnefs of the House of Representatives—but why they should refufe to themselves an opportunity of gaining additional knowledge, beyond what the leisure of any one here, or the abilities of few could collecft, was extraordinary—He wished for a reference to the Secretary in the firft instance, because it would not very well comport with the dignity of the House to refer to him in the fccond If on trial, there {hould appear either a crudity or a confliaingoffyftems j and if, as would moil probably be the cafe, partiality in the mover of any undebated set of resolutions, should fliow it felf, the House must either make the mod of the plans proposed, or in the very last resort, rail on the officer of government to suggest his opinion on the fubjetft—The fubjetf: was extremely in tricate—But part of the intricacy of taxation and finance was removed, by the well arranged order in which he prefuined the documents relative to the department were preserved.— An ad of Con gress has already delineated the duties of the va rious departments—T o the Secretary of the Trea sury it belonged to colledi information refpeiting the objects of taxation—To invent or adopt anil propose schemes, by which the revenues were to be improved— to digest ideas on the political e conomy of the country, and to superintend its finances—ln such a department, he must think that a mass of information existed on the various resources of this country, and their probable pro duftivenefs, which was not necefl'arily to be ex pected elsewhere—He wished to avail himfelf of this information, on which he would exercise his right of judging, altering or rejeifting ; and he wished to obtain it in the mode most congenial •with his own n.ind, an open refpoufible commit-' r.ication to the whole House.—He was certain that, though in no habits of intimacy* himfelf that coultl juftify a private communication with the Secretary, nor warrant from the Secretary an unsolicited opinion to him, the opinions and ideas of the Secretary would, in fonie way or o ther most alfuredly find their way into the Hotife —He wished to fee 110 minilterial out door influ ence—The wholesome influence offuperior judg ment and of well digested opinion, he did not fear ; on the contrary, that superiority was the only one to which he could bow ; and the only way in which the unmixed benefit of such an in fluence can be felt, was that way in which the law refpedting the heads of departments contem plated the fubjedt.—From this mode of commu nicating all the knowledge of the treasury de partment, two benefits would be derived—The Secretary would fend to us his best opinions on the fubjetfi, and in a way of which the whole House and the public itfelfcould avail themselves in forming a judgment—and private influence, partially, and irresponsibly given to individu al members, would be rendered useless.—He beg ged leave to remark that the objection to this mode, that the power and right was in the House of Representatives to originate money-bills,could not have much weight—The House of Repre sentatives of right, and by the constitution were properly constituted the sole origin of money bills—But this reference does not deny the right, nor can it weaken its operation—A bill does not originate till the House has agreed to some prin ciples or resolutions ; or a committee reports a bill by order :—principles then eltablifhed by vote, resolutions, or leavt, are the only ways in which, in a legillative sense, any thing can be known to this government to originate in the work of legislation—He who has not a feat here, of whom for the fake of multiplied information we require controulable opinion, does no more ori ginate the legislative work of the House, than the author of a work on finance, from whose opini ons we form a scheme of revenue, can be said to tax the people. There is certainly this good at tending a reference in such cases—a greater chance for simplicity in the fyftein of finance, and greater (lability—The opinions thus obtain ed, are not obligatory farther than as they ap pear founded in wisdom—we can alter, add, cr rejetfl—a complete controul is in our power.—lt is thus we shall unite the efficiency and regulari ty which are the only good parts of bad govern ments, with the controul and right of reiecfiion which belong to the most free. Gentlemen, af ter all, will not be precluded from furnilhing the house with the result of their individual labors, and talents.—Some gentlemen had agreed, that if a committee were to submit a plan to the House, that committee might obtain all the intelligence neceffiry from the Secretary—This would, he thought, be better than obtaining information secretly by individuals ; but would be very ob jedfionable, and attended with this inconveni ence that the opinions of the Secretary on which the committee might make their report, would be but partially known to the House, and would come into it unaccompanied by the higti refpon flbility which an official report from the officer made in the face of the world, would give them He said he would vote for the leference, be cause he wished, on so tender a fubjetft as that of taxation, to have all possible information be cause he felt his right to rejedt opinions to which he might not be able to subscribe ; and because he thought the House too delicate to obtain of ficial information in any other mode than that in which they might rightfully exert their im partial judgments in its admiifion or rejection. Mr. findley—l objedt to the resolution for calling upon the Secretary to report upon the ways and means—as contrary to the principles of the government, and inconsistent with the pu rity and independence of the House of Repre sentatives, whose duty it is exclusively to prepare or originate revenue laws. I consider this mode as a transfer of legislative authority—lt is a serious qtiei'.ion, if legislative authority can be transferee! by the constitutional representatives of the people—if it can how far ! It any part of the constitutional legislative trust C r'i trans^ may not all or any part there of be so ? The opinion 1 have received, and in which I am firmly perfuadea, is that the legifla rui e, nor any branch thereof, can do any part of legislation by proxy—The members only are re- Iponfible for the discharge of that trust ; they are the official judges of the principles and ob jects of legislation. • £ Houie of Representatives are peculiarly intruded with the authority of digelling fifcal ar rangements and principles ; of faying what (hall e a fubjecfl of taxation, to what amount, and the uses to which it (hall be applied—This power is luppofed by the constitution of the United States and by the constitutions of most or all of the se parate dates, to be a most important and influ ential part of legiflmive authority; hence the senates, though they are alio the people's repre sentatives, are in other relpetfs vested with equal egifiative authority, are not permitted to prepare revenue systems ; their attempting to do it,would ie an unc onftituiional usurpation of legislative power. 6 406 The method of tra'nsfering a pofrer to the S» cretary to digest the principles of moi|ey.biß» and report them officially to the Houfej,* nccot* panied with his arguments in support oftbeprin. ciples and arrangementi contained in & report , which has been ian&ioned by Congrewp and it now about to be repeated by "the refutation b* fore you, I consider as a method of originati* money-bills highly improper in itfelf, and hath a dangerous tendency. But a worthy member (I believe Mr. Ames) informs us, iu defence of the resolution, that the Secretary can prepare a revenue system w i t (, more consistency with ref'pec r t to the txilfin<T re . venue laws, and better calculated to support pub lie credit—that it will pais with greater facility through the House— that the members are une. qual to the bufinefs—tlnu the members do not potTefs fufficient information to enable them to originate the business—that the Secretary only is poflefled of the information competent "to it— that we can judge of his systems when they are laid before us—as there will be always fonie to find out his defects and expose them. All ( h e fe arguments refpetSing the incompetency of the members for the business, and the fuperiorfitnefs of the Secretary, apply against the government itfelf ; if the constitution vests this House with a trull which it is not qualified to discharge, it is time to change it, and adopt a more fimpleform. It is much better to have a minister responsible to the people for the revenue systems theyintro duce, that to have his responsibility loft 'in the legislature—is the members of this Houfeareon ]y to give a fanftion to the minister's fylleins, it is better to dispense with that fandion. I have no doubt but that the Secretary of the Treafurv is very capable of discharging this duty ; and if he was a member of this House, would not fay he was unfit far his part of that trull—but this is not the place for panegyric—The minider's emi nent abilities or his want of them, is all one to me on this fubjetft.—The modelly of gentlemen who declare themselves unfit, is not very honor able to the House, nor easy to be credited.—Let tne House fix its own principles, judge for them selves <?f the proper sources of revenue, and of the !>fes to which it ought to be applied ; and capacity and information will grow out of the investigation—if the members differ in opinion, as may be expedted, they will propose different systems ; and by comparison and discussion they will become the better acquainted with the fub ject—lf the members stand in need of that in formation which arises from the operation of ex isting laws, or of the efficiency of operating re venues—the President has a conffitutional power to call upon the heads of departments for that information, and communicate it to the legisla ture ; and the House, by its own authority, has a right to call for information from any officer or department, upon any fubjecft respecting which it may originate laws—this is a power incidental to iegiflation.—But with refpe<ft to the general interests of the community, the knowledge of which mull grow out of a reprefentauon of all the local interests, this can only be found among the members of this House—and if the represent ation was more numerous and more equal, that kind of information would be still more perfect —Certainly this House contains in itfelf more ex tensive knowledge of the people's wants and pressures, of their situation and prepollelfions, and of their refburces, than the moil enlightened minister can possibly do ; especially when it is considered that all the documents locked up in the minister's office is at their command —the pra&ice of the House in depending on the mi nister for to originate principles, and to furnifh the House with volumes ot arguments in favor of those principles—and the custom of membets having recourse to those arguments as authorities, has done more to dishonor Congress and le'leii the members in the public efteen»,fince the change of the government, than any other part of their conduit. How can Congress be reipeiftable, if they spend long felfions at a great expense on the molt influential parts of legislation, only to gi* = a fancftion to ministerial fyllems ; or at beftonl/ to criticile and corretft them. (The remainder of this speech in our next.) MONDAY, April 16. Several petitions and memorials were reac.ai referred — among others, a petition from J u ' e P Ree, an Oneida Indian, praying compenfationlo lodes and services during the late war—and 3 memorial from the Firit Presbyterian Society" New-ferfey, praying compensation for the lo of a building formerly occupied as an acadetnv, and delTroyed by the enemy in the late war. > A petition of Eliphalet Lacid, praying an abate ment of the duties on certain goods laved fi° ,n the wreck of the ship Columbia, loft on a le S e of rocks near Plymouth, MaiTachufetts. The report of the Secretary of the I reafuf)> relative to the compensations of the officer 50 the revenue, was referred to a feletft coninntt of five. . . e The report of a committee on the petition o the inhabitants of Newark, praying coinp el '"'
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