■tjfuu, it) for uhatfia/ltefionJ 4*t on fuAfittLmOt, RMvtd, that
V troops of tk: L HUed itat;s, ui comm.to with all the creditors of
the lame, hsve an u«doubte4 right to expett fuc,h lecurity ; and
!£ , 0 "?r ,V '' «» I,keev * r y ef fori in their power to obtain from
f Jf , P e^ lve toatei, lubftantial funds, adequate to the obi a ot
fund lug the w.iole debt of the UMl.ed States, and will enter upon
dn immediate ana tutl confider«tio»of the nature of such funds,
toe n.o mode of obtaining them." Nothing can more
cieai .y appear, than that at the time of thei'e resolutions, Congrcfs
MJafidcud .he Uobt due to the army for pay and depreciation ot
jay, as well as that due to their other creditors, as the particular
L '"'^ d States.—Hete was no pretenccof denying the
contrast or turning them over to the S.ates for payment. It is
true, Congrds in thalercfolutiotu call upon the individual States,
to fettle with their lines of the arm) to a given day, but the pay
JS to come trom adequate funds to be provided by the efforts of
ongre s romtlie teveral Stales. Iu obedienceto this requisition,
the Stales proceed to the fcttlemerif, not only of the Day to the
-lines of the army,lnn alto of the claims of their citizens for fuppliet
Turnithed to contiadlors, comm lfane, and quarter-matters witli
all their holt ot-deprndants, and'ec lifieaies of the balances due
to them, were given under the direftionof the States individually,
who thereby agietably to the foregoing resolutions, became fecu
nty to tlx creditors, on hehalf of the confederated government,
* >at thetrdebis should be paid. Congress immediately proceed
ed to demand of the kveral States, an import of 5 per cent, ad va
lorem os all goods, wares and merchandizes, imported into the
United States, and, additional fuins for 25 years, adequate to the
payment of the intrrtft of the whole debt agreeably to. their affur.
ances in answer to the memorial if the army.
Some of the Stat** compßed with this requisition, and provided
supplementary hinds ovcd and above the impoll tor 25 years -but
others refuting, the whole pcoj'ett wis rendered abortive and the
creditors of the union left in the most diftrefling circumftancej.
• ihe clamours ot the citizcns wete too great to be withilood bv
manpof the States yvhoconfidered themfetves as sureties for the
•united States, and indeed under aneceflityof rendering foine im
mediate, tuo' partial fupplies,to prevent everything running into
<onfuiion. They thereupon undertook tq pay their own citizens
Jie inieretl due on their refpeftive certificates, whether given by
1 ie Ipecial oflirer* of Congrets (as the coramitiioners ot loan) or
under the dircrtion of the Itandard before mentioned. The State
«>l Ncw-Jeifev in this way paid five years intertft, to the amount
<11 leveral hundred thousand dollars. But although th ■Ir partial
1 ayments put the evil day farther otf, yet the time at last came
' w ' len goud We ps tlie people, finding the government una
l ie to support Itfclt and comply with their engagements, and fee
ing nothing but ruin aud confufioii before tiiem, wifely brought
about another revolution, and formed a new conaitution founded
on a more intimate union us the (e*eral States, with greater and
more efficient powers for the purpole of ejUbliJhing jujlt. t , infurinr
ttouvjiic ttanijuUity r j)romotfng the general wtjare tnJfeturui' the blel-
J:ngJ Itj liberty. J
Provision was'alfo rxprefsly made, that all dibts and engage
njents binding on the lormer government, lhoold be equally va
lid againll the prcftnt. Under this new conUuution, the govern
ment is veftcd 111 the fullelt manner with all the resources and
funds necelfary for the paymrnt of the general debt of the union,
»nd what thej had in vain asked of the several Slates under the
former conlorieration. Ol course (he individual Stale was de
prived of them, and no longer had it in her power to continue
her partial aids towards fatisfying the growing interest on the de
mands of their citizens.
Iri this foliation, and under these circumstances, our creditors
cams forward, with the evidences of their demands given hy
the individual State by order ot the United States in Con<refs af
lemblcd, and demand payment of us, as their original debtor,
lor whom they performed the services and to whom they granted
thefupplies, allcrfging that by the transfer of the revenues and
/efources ot government from the refpe&ive States (o us, their fe
curtty is invalidated and we arc become able to pay them, agreea
bly to the fpint of our original contract. These quMlions then
lairlv arise,
Was the contrail originally ouri, or were the United States the
original debtor ?— if so, has the creditor been paid his jull due, or
lias he releafctl us from thr obligation ?
There caibe no doubt in my opinion, from the foregoing view
of the circumlfance! of the cale ; and 1 believe no gentleman will
deny, but that we are the original debtors as reprelcniin- (he for
mer government.
It is asclear that all the creditor has received for his demand
.*ias been a ceitifi-atc from the Stat--, tellifyiug a certain bailee'
die to him for his Cervices, or for supplies rendered. And here
J should enter into the argument, to (hew that (his certificate from
the State cannot on any principles of jujiice, honor or po/ict be
considered as payment, was not already done to mv
band in language so much more"forcible than any I can use on
ibis occasion, and the omiflion of which would be impnfing on
tiie committe-. This will be found in the 322 d and 413 th pages
o( the Congrrllional Register, where an Mr
jVladilon) in (peaking on the lubjeft of public certificates, thou gh
to another point, favs, " Let us consider firll by whom the debt
was contracted, and then to whom it is due. The debt was con
tracted by the United States, who with refpeft to that particular
tranfa&ion were in a national capacity. The government was no
thing more than the agent or organ by which the whole body of
the people attcd. The charigeiri the government which has taken
place, has enlarged its national capacity, but it has not varied the
national obligation with refpeft to the engagements entered into
by that transition—for in like manner the present government is
noshing more than ihe organ or agent of the public. There is
110 change in our political duty nor In the moral or political ob
ligation—The language I now use is the language of the conftitu.
tion itfelf—itdeclarts that all debts Ihjll have the fame validity
agamft the United Statu, under the new asunder theoldf.rmof
government—The obligation remains the lame, though 1 hope ex
perience will prove that the ability has been favorably varied."
—Again a debt was fairly contracted ; according to juftjee and
good faith it ought to have been' paid in gold or Tilv cr. A piece
of paper was only fubltituted. Was this paper equal to gold or
silver ? No ; it was worth in the market no more than oue eighth
or one seventh of that value. Was this depreciated paper freelv
acceptcd ?No ; the government offered thai or nothing. The re
lation of the individual to the government and circumstances of
the offer, rendered the acceptance a forced, not a tree one. Again
—" Here there debt acknowledged to have been once due,
and which w"asne\er discharged, because the payment was fo'ccd
and defective ; the balance consequently is. ftili due, and is of as
facrcd a natuic as the claims of the holders can be. ThefeconcJu
five arguments agply with double force to the question before the
committee. Was the debt contra&ed by the United States ? If so
where have they any evidence of payment ? If it is answered in
the ftatc certificates, I reply, a piece of paper was only substituted
lor the bare purpose of afccitaining the balanee as preparatory to
its being funded,and that by the particular order of Cougrefs,un
der the idea of providing the creditor with fecur-ity for his debts.
Was this paper equal to gold and silver or any other substantial pay
ment ? The relation oT the individual to the government and cir
cuipftances of the offer, rendered the acceptance s forced, not a
free one. But, fir, a part of the is still unenfwerecl. It
is {aid that if thefc are debts of the United States in the hands of
individual citizens, niujl they not be the debts of the United States
in the Treasuries of the different states. I auffrer by no means.
This argument is cxtremclyj fallacious.. Iri common life, if.anv
person who becomes my fecaritv, pays the debt for me and he
owes me money. J can with propriety refufe to'-pay- him till he fct
tks.|ais debt with me ; but if such fecuriiy icfufes, or is unabJed
to pay the dclt to my Creditor, I certainly have no to put off
.my creditor till the security (hall have paid me what he may owe
me. * (To continued.)
MONDAY, JUNE 21, 1790.
THE bill to etlabiifli the Poll-Office and Port;
Roads in the United States, was brought in
engrofled, and read the third time. The blanks
were filled up.—The fine for detaining the mail
was set at a funi not exceeding 5 dollars for every
halt hour. The falaryof the Post-Master-Gener
al 1600 dollars—Alfiftant 1000 dollars—Deputy
Pott-Matters 20 pr. cent, on the pottage of letters
received at their refpe<ftive offices.—The blanks
being filled up, the bill was palled.
Reports from the Secretary at War on sundry
petitions were read.
The bill for repealing after thelaftdayof
the duties heretofore laid on spirits, &c. was ta
ken into consideration.—The queltion was, whe
ther the bill fhould*be engrofled.
Mr. Stone observed, that no man could be more
in favar of making provision for the debt of the
United States, than himfelf—but the present bill
pointed out a mode which he conceived to be the
worst that could be devised—the mod exception
able, and would turn out the most unprodu«fiive.
He ffiould therefore vote against the bill on a full
conviction that other funds, entirely unexcept
ionable, might be found, and which might be
contained perhaps in a quarter of a Iheet of pa
per. Hefaid he should call for the Ayes and Noes.
Mr. Carrol observed, that as so much time had
been taken up in maturing the bill, he hoped
that it would pass to be engrofled—the business
is of very great importance, and ought now to be
finilhed. He wished therefore that the Ayes and
Noes might not be called in the present ttage of
the bill, as it would not, he conceived, answer the
purpose intended by the gentleman.
Mr. Stone withdrew his motion.
Mr. Bloodworth renewed the motion, but as.
terwatds he withdrew it.
Mr. Page said he hoped that the Ayes and Noes
would be called. -
Mr. Jackson was also in favor of coming to ai:
ultimate dccifio'n on the bill.
Mr. Gerry said if there is a majority of the
house who are determined to reje(A the bill, he
could not feeof.whatufeit was to have itengfofled.
Mr. Fitzfimpns said he had observed, that if this
bill ihould be-*eje<aed, there would be great dif
ficulty in finding other resources He wilhed
that the House would now decide npon it.
Mr. Vining spake in favor of the bill, and was
Tor trying theitrength of the house on the quef
ion, and in that; view >vas in favor of calling the
iyct and Noes. Thequeftion on engroffin? the
.ill was deterwmed in the negative, as follow •
Meflrs Brown, Cadw<ader, Carrol, Contee
r itzlimoils, Ployd, bolter, Gale, Gilnwir, Griffin'
Hartley, Heifter, Lee, Livermore, Madison, p'
Muhlenberg, Seney, Sherman, Sinnjekfon, Smith
(M.) Vimng, White, Willi am foil 22.
NOES.
Meflrs Ames, Afhe, Baldwin, Benfon, Blood
worth, Burke, Coles, Gerry, Goodhue, Grout,
Hathorne, Huger, Huntington, Taction, Law
ranee, Leonard, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker
Partridge, Itenfellaer, Scot,
Smith, (S C.) Sevier, Steele, Stone, Sturges
Sumpter, Thatcher, Trumbull, Tucker, Wads'
worth .35. '
By this vote, the bill was loft.
Mr. Kitzfimons moved that a committee fliould
be appointed todevife a plan for payment of the
interelt on the debt of the United States This
motion was agreed to—and the followingeentle
n'en -viz. Mr.Fitzfimons, Mr.Madiron
Mr. Sedgwick, Mr. Sherman, Mt. Tucker. '
A meilage was received from the Senate in
ormingthat they have concurred in the vote of
the house, of the Bth inft. for appointiug a joint
committee toconfider and determine on 1 proper
Um tr f or , t . 1 . , . e r ad j° ur n me nt, and that they have
palled a bill for fettling the claims of John Mc
Coid, with amendments.
In committee of rhe whole on the amendatory
bill, providing for the settlement of accounts be
tween the United States and individual States
T , , A Mr. Seney in the Chair.
The firft clause provides for encreafingthenuni
ber °to J 6 niß lonerS from 3' the prefent num.
Mr. Foller moved that the words, « two Com
miffioners in addition to" should be ttruck out
Mr Lawrance objected to the motion. He ob
lervedthat very exteiifive powers were given to
these comnulhoners-the objects on whfch they
are to decide are of the utmoil importance-and
he thought that { con.miffioners wiuld give more
frttisfaftion to the people than 3
Mr. Livermore was in favor of the motion—
He thought the business would be procrastinated
111 proportion to the number.— 1 hree has lippn
ti 10 fh ght [ uffic!ent —" ot hing new has been offered
to ftiew that any more are necefiary. If the num
ber was encreafed to 60, he thought it wou,d
only enibarrafs the more.—He considered the
addition as an indiretft impeachment of the tren
tlemen now in office-he had never heard^y
498
AYES.
fault found with them—he believed thev
competent to the bufinefs.—lf we make the a?
(lition, what has been done, may be all loft i„u
If 3 would finifh the business in 3 years he 1 J
no doubt that 5 would take J years. '
Mr. Williamfon said he differed from the «
tlenian lalt speaking, in refpetf to the addition
to the board's being an impeachment or imnm
tion on the gentlemen now in office.
The powers proposed to be veiled,are much mm
extenfive than tliofe by the former bill— w u- f
renders it expedient that the number fhould'v,
encreafed—that more accurate information f r "
various parts of the Union may be collected"—
He said he had the highelt opinion of the prefer,
Coinmiflionei s—they were gentlemen whose a i C
lities were undoubtedly refpedtable—but he couW
not conceive that their abilities or importan
would be leflened or depreciated by the pronnfj
addition. ea
Mr. Livermore made some reply to Mr.\Vili; am
son The motion for ftrikingout was neo-,'
lived. o a "
On motion, of Mr. Sherman, the 6tli fe<fli on Wa
amended to read thus—That the States who fiall
have balances placed to their credit on the books
of theTreafury of the United States, shall with ,
i" after the fame fliall have been ere"
dited, be entitled to have the fame funded upon
the fame terms as the other debts of the n n Lj
States. uca
Mr. Smith, (S. C.) moved thatthe claufewhich
deprives the States of the power of transferino
the debts due to them from the United States
should be (truck out. He observed that he could
fee no reason for the prohibition—it appears ab.
surd that a State should not have it in its power
to transfer its demands against the United States
to its creditors.—He wished that gentlemen would
assign the reafoijsfor the clause.
Mr. Sedgwick said he would give the reafon
it was to prevent increasing the demands against
the United States, in the hands of foreigners -
This was a desirable obje<ft, and ought to be at
tended to as far as pollible.—ln refpedt to tha
domestic debt, it was to be lamented, that so much
ofit was in the hands of foreigners— this however
could not be prevented ; but with refpeft to the
present cafe, it may be done without any injury
whatever—and therefore we ought to extend the
prohibition a« far as we can confident with juitice
Mr. Sherman spake against the motion.
Mr. Smith supported his motion He (hewed
the inconvenience and expence that would attend
the double operation of the Stares' firft recei*in<r
their mtereft, and then paying it to their credi »
tors He further observed that it v; as treating
the States like children—individuals may transfer
their demands-but the States are I)ot so to be
trusted.— He added other remarks—v hen the
question being taken, motion was 1011.
Mr. Sedgwick moved thal , he clause be
amended to reau,—and no debt due to any parti
cular State, frail be transferable. This wasa
greed to.
I he c,,au(e which provides for paying the clerks
500 d ollars from the time of their appointment,
was amended by striking out the last words " from
Me time of their appointment."
The Committee rose and reported the bill with
the amendments.
The amendment refpeifting the Clerks was ob
jetted to by Mr. Seney—it was however agreed to
by the House. 6
Mr, Jackion moved that the clause, determin
mg the rule of apportionment, in the following
wous, <c The rule for apportioning to the States
the expences of the war, ihaJl be the fame that is
prescribed by the Constitution of the United
tates or the apportionment of representation
and direvft taxes, and according to the firft enu
meration that shall be made," should beftruckout
—and called for the Ayes and Noes—which are
as follow : AYES.
Meflrs Afhe Baldwin, Floyd, Foster, Gilman,
Hathor"?, Jackson, Lawrance, Livermore, Sedg-
Merti s Arries, Benfon, Blood worth, Boudinot,
Brown, Burke, Cadwallader, Carrol, Coles, Con
tee, Htzfimons, Gale, Goodhue, Griffin, Grout,
ei rer, Huger, Huntington, Leonard, Madison,
Mulilenburg, Moore, Fage, Partridge, Renfellaer,
.reman, Scot, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester,
Sinu.ckfon, Smith(M.) Smith(S.C.) Sevier, Steele,
atone, Sturges, Sumpter, Thatcher, Trumbull, '
I ucker, Vining, Wadsworth, White, William
ion ' '
A clause was proposed by Mr. Tucker, for con
tinuing the salaries of the Commissioners to the
i , , altho the accounts should
be fettled prior to that period. The firft part
was agreed to—from the word « altho" to the
end, was negatived.
A motion was made by Mr. Steele to amend the
cJaule which refpeds the claims of the States, to
ltr.ke out the word « was" before the word ex
v'[ed > a, . ,fl t0 "ifert the words " /hall be."—
J his motion was negatived. —-It was then vo
ted that the bill be engrofled for a third reading
to-morrow. Adjourned.
NOES.