that the weds debts aid engagements, here expressed, would
comprehend as well the rcfidue fttll due to the officers, soldiers,
and other original creditors, as the claims of the present holders of
alienated certificates ; and that if the constitution created any ob
ligation concerning debts, &c. it had equal force with refpe£t to
every description of creditors. But he apprehended that the con
stitution did not, ,by the words expressed, place any debts allud
ed to in a situation different from that in which they were previ
ous to its adoption.
Great stress, said he, had been 1 id upon the pra&ice of other
nations. It had been frequently asserted, that the measure pro
posed was without a precedent in any country : it had been re
peatedly recommended to us to imitate the British parliament as
to measures touching public credit.
We howevei find, said he, a cause was cited yesterday, by an
honorable member from Virginia (Mr. Madison) in which they
made a provision as to debtors, similar to the one now under con
fidcration. If precedent is therefore to influence, we have one
from the nation whose public faith isextolled. But it had been ob
served by an honorable member from New-York (Mr. LawranceJ
that the precedent then cited was not applicable, because, said the
gentleman, the British parliament and Congress are bodies very
different as to power ; the former is omnipotent and unlimited
as to objects of legislation ; the latter is not so, but reftn&ed and
confined by the conffitution which controuls their power : That
the British parliament can therefore do many a£ls confident with
♦heir powers, which Congress cannot. This observation, said Mr.
Scncy, docs by no means diminish the force of the precedent ;
because, although Congress possess not power as to all obje&s of
legislation so extensive as the British parliament, yet, as to obje6ts
•within their power, they were as much omnipotent as that parlia
ment. It will not, he conceived, be denied, but that a provision
refpefting public credit was one of those objects ; with regard,
therefore, to the fubje£t under debate, there can be no difference
between the two bodies as to omnipotence.
It had been remarked, he said, by another member from New-
York (Mr. Benfon) that the adoption of the amendment would be
improper, because it was unsolicited by those whom it wa» de
signed to benefit; and because there was reason to believe it
would meet with difappiobation.
The gentleman, he said, had informed us of a resolve of the Cin -
cinnati of this State difavowingthe plan, and cited their proceed
ings as evidence to prove this disapprobation. In replv to this, he
would not then enquire how proper it would be for the commit
tee, in their dccifion, to be influenced by any a& of the Cincin
nati, or other focietv ; but believed, if the hiilory of the proceed
ing alluded to was fully known,nothing could be inferred from it
to effe£l that gentleman's purpose. That he had, since the pub
lication of their refolVe. been informed, that the meeting of the
society, at the time it pasTed, was not a full one ; that such a re
solve was unexpe&ed by many until proposed, and that it pasTed
•without debate, and, as it were, sub filcntio ; that he had since
been informed that several of the body disapproved of the resolve,
and believed that if a full meeting was had, a different determi
nation wonld be the rcfult. He had conceived that the worthy
members composing that body had too much experience of their
own fufferings to be opposed to a provision in favor of those cre
ditors for whom the compensation was intended, and could not
think that such a provision would bedifapproved of by a society
of the kind in any of the States. /
It had, upon this occasion, been after ted, said he, that public
opinion should have little influence on theconduft of legislatures.
But, notwithstanding the plausible reasoning he had heard upon
that head, he was fatisfied a regard was due and mufl be had to
the opinions of the people, and to their feelings. Government,
he said, was formed for their benefit ; under the prefentconftituti
on, all the powers of it flow from them as the 4 fource ; they have
the means of carrying into execution their will ; and under those
circum fiances he could not believe the legislature ought to be in
different as to their sentiments.
Gentlemen, he said, had founded their opposition to the amend
ment principally upon the rigid rules ftrittJv adhered to in the
courts of common law ; rules which had often been the means of
ftifiing justice, to corrett the rigour of which legislatures had often
mterpofed. Such rules couli not be proper fetters for the su
preme power of government. The history of Rations proves that
Jegifldtures are superior to them ; their objc&s are extensive ; and
m all extraordinary cases they will make luch provifiont as may
be requisite to effett general justice and equity. The cafe under
consideration was certainly one of an extraordinary kind. He
could not think that those, whose exertions had rescued them and
us from despotism and slavery, were ever honestly paid those
tard-eafned claims they were I'o justly entitled to ; and could not
but believe, that as long as those claims existed, there wonld exifl
a stigma on the justice, humanity, and gratitude of this country.
Mr. Livermore said he was against any discrimination between
the soldier, or other public creditor, who held a public security,
and the speculator who had purchased one. He said the securities
were made payable to the bearer, and consequently transferable,
intent that they might be fold, if convenience or nfceffity
ftiould require if. This had been well understood by all parties,
as well in America as in foreign countries, and securities had been
fold accordingly. The advocates for discrimination have not de
nied this ; they have only allcdged that the low rate at which the
poor soldier, or other public creditor, had fold their securities,
was a fufHcient reason for Congrefsto interfere and set aside the
file. In opposition to this, Mr. Livermore observed, that per
sons had a right to buy and fell at such prices as they could mutual
ly agree upon, provided there was no fraud.
A diamond, a horse, or a lot of ground, might be fold too
cheap or too dear, and so might any other property ; but govern
ment could not interfere without destroying the general system of
law and justice. Esau had fold his birth-right for a mess of pot
tage, and heaven and earth had confirmed the (ale. The distresses
of the army, both officers and soldiers. at the time they received
and fold their securities, had been painted in too strong a light.
T hcv were not so emaciated, by sickness or famine, as had been
represented. They were crowned with victory and received with
applause by their fellow-citizens; and although they had been
paid in'papcr,their loss had been made up by large bounties and m
other emoluments, so that, in point of property, they were equal
to their fellow-citizens, that had borne the burden of taxes, under
"which many were laboring to this day. Let them be called
brave fold iers. or pat riot 1 c soldiers, but not poor soldiers.
They ought to be governed by the fame system of justice that go
verns others ; but their contracts ought not to be fct aside out
rtf partiality to them. He said the cafe quoted from the statute of
Queen Ann, was not applicable to this cafe, inasmuch as govern
ment had not originally made the debentures therein mentioned
transferable. Neither, he said, did the cafe of the Canada bills
apply ; for, as he understood, those bills were paid to Britilh
merchants, or others, who had purchased them.
Mr. Livermore concluded, by faying that he should vote a
gainfl the araendmcn l , because no fufficient reason had been af
(igned that could operate in his mind against the general system of
right. (To be continued.)
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 3.
Mr. Arnfs of the committee to whom was recommitted the bill
to provide for the rcmiflion or mitigation of fines, forfeitures and
penalties in certain cases, presented a report, which was read
On motion of Mr Lawrance the petition of Abraham Skinner,
«vas read the fccond time—and referred to a committe of three.
Mr. Sedgwick of the committee on the petition of Jehoiakim
Mtochkfin brought in a report which dated, that the circumstan
ces in the petition were fubflantiated—and proposed a resolve
that the petitioner (hould be entitled to receive one hundred and
twenty dollars out of the public Treasury, in full of his claims
againfttke Uaitrd State*.
Mi". Carrol afcer a few introductory observa
tions shewing that several members wished fur
ther time to digest the fnbjecl of the afl'umption
of the State debts propofedthat the committee of
the whole should be discharged from a further
attention to that part of the Secretary's report
for the prefent,and made a motion to that effe<ft,
which was Seconded : This motion was objected
to by Mr. Smith (S. C.) Mr. Lawrance and Mr.
Sedgwick—and supported by Mr. Seney, Mr.
White and Mr. Madison—the latter gentleman
proposed an amendment, so that the committee
should be discharged, till the Secretary of the
Treasury should communicate the information ex
pected from hiin on the fubjecft refpecfcing the re
sources to be appropriated for the purpose of
paying the debts to be afltimed : This motion
was considered as an indirect method of getting
rid of this particular part of the report altoge
ther—and those who considered this part as in
Separably conne&ed with all the reft observed,
that if this was pafled over they should be totally
at a loss how to aiflwith refpedt to the other
obje&s of the report.
It was further said that if this vote was adopt
ed, it would place the State debts in a less eligi
ble situation than those of the continental—when,
as it was contended they ttood 011 equally merito
rious sooting—these observations were concluded
with a motion that the committee fliould suspend
rhe confederation of the whole report, and not
have reference to any particular part of it.—All
idea of getting rid of the business as had been
fuggelted, was disclaimed by Mr. Carrol—He
thought the observation uncandid.—The differ
ence between the Stare and continental creditors
was urged by those who were in favor of the mo
tion—and the acts of the old Congress to that
purport, were cited—lt was said that no idea of
opposition to this motion was expected, as the
committee mull fee the propriety of waiting for
the requisite information from the Secretary of
the Treasury—The question on this motion be
ing taken, was negatived.
In committee of the whole on the natnraliza
tion bill—the subject of admitting foreigners to
the right of holding lands occasioned considera
ble debate—it was urged that the power of form
ing a uniform rule of naturalization is veiled in
Congress by the constitution exclusively—and
cannot reft in the States, without involving the
greatest absurdity—as every State has its parti
cular mode—from which every difficulty was
experienced—lt is therefore neceflary that Con
gress fliould determine upon a rule which fliould
operate equally through all the States and gn to
effecting complete citizenfhip.—ln reply to these
observations it was said that the mode ofadmiffion
to citizenship only, could be uniform ; that Con
gress cannot interfere with the laws and regula
tions of the several States—their power extends
only to the rule, but the subsequent parts of ci
tizenship must depend on the regulations of the
respective States—when a foreigner is natural
ized, he will immediately enquire what rights he
becomes entitled to by virtue of his new charac
ter —on motion
Thefecond and third fedi'ions which related to
foreigners holding lands were (truck out. The
committee having proceeded through the discus
sion, rose and reported the bill with amendments
—and the House ordered the fame to be engros
sed for a third reading.—Adjourned.
THURSDAY, MARCH 4,
Mr. Contee took his feat this day.
The bill providing a uniform rule of na
turalization, was brought in engrossed—read the
third time, and pafled to be enatfted.
The bill providing for the remission or mitiga
tion of fines, forfeitures, and penalties, in certain
cases, was read the second time, and referred to
the committee of the whole house, to be taken up
to morrow.
Several petitions were read and committed
In committee of the whole on the bill to pro
mote the progress of the ufeful arts. The bill
was read, and difcufled in paragraphs. The
clause which gives a party a right to appeal to a
jury from the ilecifion of referees, it was moved,
fliould be struck out. This motion was opposed,
as depriving the citizen of a right to which he is
entitled—as improper in itfelf, as causes of very
great magnitude may be depending, which it may
be highly improper to submit to the decision of
three men only, two of which may be so different
ly interested, as never to agree—so that the deci
sion may finally result from the influence of the
pei foil nominated by the Secretary of State. On
the other hand it wasfaid, that it appears highly
improper that juries should be called tojudge up
on matters that they may not be supposed com
petent to forming a judgment os—these trials will
always relate to matters of invention, &c. of
which three persons may be found with much
greater ease who are competent to judge,
than twel-e—that the right of trial by juries'
is not universal—and in the present cafe there
will be a much greater probability of having jus
tice done by arbitrators, who are men offcience
&c. The motion for linking cut was carried in
the affirmative.
374
The committee proceeded further in the dis
cussion of this bill—but rose without compleatine
it—and the chairman reported progress.
A report was received from the Secretary of
theTreafury, pursuant to orders from the House
and read. '
FRIDAY, MARCH j
Mr. Foflerof the committee on the memorials
of the people called quakers ref'peciing the slave
trade brought in a report, which was read.
Mr. Gerry presented a petition from Catha
rine Greene relidl of the late Major General
Greene—which was read.
Mr. Scot moved that the memorial of Richard
Wells and J. Hart refpe<fting the old paper mo
ney, ffiould be referred to the committee of the
whole House.
The question being taken the motion was ne
gatived—it was then moved that it be referred
to a feledt committee often members—which pas.
fed in the affirmative.
A memorial was presented by Mr. Tucker from
the officers of the Soutli-Carolina line of the late
army.
In committee of the whole <>n the bill for the
remission, or mitigation of fines, penalties and
forfeitures in certain cases—the bill was read
and having made one amendment the committee
rose, and reported the lame to the House, who
ordered the bill to be eugroffed for a third read-
ing.
In committee of the whole on the hill to pro
mote the progress of the ufeful arts—Sundry a
mendments were made in this bill, which were
reported to the House, these amendments with
several others were agreed to, and incorporated
in the bill, which was ordered to be engrofledfor
a third reading on Monday next.
A meflage from the Senate informing that they
have pafledan acfl to accept of the cession of cer
tain lands in the Western Teiritory, made by
the State of North Carolina—Alfo,that they have
palled arefolve, forgiving further inftru<ftjons
to the colletftors of import in the United States,
in which they request the concurrence of the
Honfe.
The bill to provide for the reiniffion, or mi
tigation of fines, forfeitures and penalties was
brought in,engrofled, read the third time,aador
derea to lie on the table.
The a<fl aod resolve received from the Senate
were then read.
The petition of Mrs. Greene was read a fecotfd
time, and referred to a committee of five.
The report of the committee on the letter from
the commissioners on accounts, refpe<fiing the sa
laries of the Clerks in their office was read---A
motion for recommitting this report, and inftruft
ing the conimitte to bring in a bill pursuant there
to, occasioned considerable debate refpecfting the
difference between a resolve and a law—the mo
tion for recommitting pafled in the affirmative—
the fubjeft of the south western frontiers being
moved for—the galleries were shut.
Adjourned till Monday.
li Treasury Department, March 4, 1790.
In obedience to the Order of the Houfc of Representatives, of the second
injl. The Secretary of the Treasury refpeftfutly reports,
THAT in his opinion, the fundsin the nrft instance requisite to
wards the payment of interest on the debts of the individual States,
according to the modifications pmpofed by him in his report of
the ninth of January past, may be obtained from the following ob
jects :
An increase of the general produtt of the duties on goods im
ported, bv abolishing the discount of ten per cent, allowed by the
fifth feftion of the A6l for laying a duty on goods, wares, and mer
chandize, imported into the United States, in refpett to goods im
ported in American bottoms, and adding ten percent, to the rates
fpecified, in refpett to goods imported in foreign bottoms, with
certain exceptions and t qualifications : This change, without im
pairing the commercial policy of the regulation, or making an in
convenient addition to the general rates of the duties, will occasion
an augmentation of the revenue little short of two hundred thou
sand dollars.
An additional duty on imported sugars. Sugars arc an objett
of general csnfumption : and yet constitute a small proportion of
the expence of families. A moderate addition to the present rates
would not be felt. From the bulkinefs of the article too, such an
addition may be made with due regard to tfce fafety of collcftion.
The quantity of brown and other inferior kinds of sugar import
ed, appears to exceed twenty-two millions of pounds, which at a
half cent per pound, would produce one hundred dnd ten thou
sand dollars. Proportional impositions on foreign refined iugar,
nnd proper diawbacks on exportation, ought of courfc to indem
nify the manufacturers of this article among ourselves.
MolafTes, being in some of the States a substitute for sugar, a
small addition to the duty on that article, ought to accompany
an increase of the duty on sugar. This, however ought to be re
gulated with proper attention to the circumflance, that the fame
article will contribute largely in the fliape of distilled spirits.
Half a cent per gallon on molafle«, would yield an annual sum of
thirty thousand dollars. Our distillers of spirits from this mate
rial, may be compensated, by a proportional extenfionof thedu
ty on imported spirits.
Snuff, and other manufactured tobacco, made within the Uni
ted States : Ten cents per pound on the Snuff, and fix cents on
other kinds of manufactured tobacco, would be likely to produce
annually, from ninety to one hundred thousand dollars. From
as good evidence as the nature of the cafe will admit, the quan
tity of these articles manufactured in the United States, may be
computed to exceed a milion and a half of pounds. The impo
sition of this duty would require an increase of the duty on im
portation, and a drawback on exportation, in favor of the manu
facture. Thi* being an absolute fuperfluity, is the faireft objeCt of
revenue that can be imagined, and maybe so regulated, as in n«
degree, to injury either the growth, or manufacture of the com
modity
Pepper, pimento, spices in general, and various other kinds of
groceries. Thrfe articles will bear such additional rates, as may
be eft i mated to yield a sum of not less than thirty thousand dollars.