t tt* —t —ti-tt t —Tim tn mm mi m* H i %t>z PHILADELPHIA, FRIDAY FVJ2NING, fiF.CBMHEIt 19. . „ C ,0 N G R E S S. MOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Debate on a motion to re-Confjer the qnefl'tori far -pofpolling the conjideration of 11 Bill fuppfe tiientary to an Afl for preventing rertaifi c rimes againjl the United Slatei, paJJ'ed 'June i 1 • 794' thefirft Monday in February. ( Concluded from yijlerdaf' s Gazette,) TUESDAY, DECEMBER 26? Mr.* Sewall was in favour of re-consider ing flie queflion ; not that he wished the business crowded upon the honfj ; he had no objection to a fortnight, or longer, be ing given. theij observations on this fubjeit, had recurred to the proceed ings of last Congress, which had notliing to do wiilftheprefent question, and argued as if t here urere a law forbidding merchants to Krm their veflels ; whereas there was no filch thing, because he never could confidpr executive diredtions as law. ' It was true tfie ptfefident of the United States had for bidden the arming of veflels, except for the P. a It-India and African trade ; but there were no regulations to prevent impolitions . in this refpedt, and nothing was more easy than for vr.Tels to clear out for those places, and to go to others, and if they did so, they were fubjeii at present to no forfeiture. It Was proper, therefore, that Congress should come to some determination on the fubjeit, and fay whether merchants had a right to arm, or not, and under what reftri&ions ; as, at pref?nt, the whole burthen was im properly thrown npon the Prcfideht. Wbilft t:ie bgfinefs remained upon its present foat •'ng, circumstances might arise which would be very unpltafant. For inflanee, if a mer rhant were to sue a ccflledtor for carrying into effect the orders "of the executive, it Would be itapoflibltf" for arfy to found a decision upon those orders. Nothing, ' Mr. S. said, could be gathered from the proceedings of last Congress, as the present bill wan intended merely to regulate a right ivhich the merchants already pofleffed of artning their vefitls, so as to prevent hostile •aggreflions. There was nothing in this n. eafu)-e, be said, which could give offence to our mfifers, even if we were colonics of Trance, of of Great-Britain. AH that was intended was a defence against pirates, whom no country would own ; for, if a restitution was asked for, on account oflof fes fnftaitjed by them, it would be said by Trance or Great-Britain, " we know them " not, you ougf t to defend yourfelvcs against them." As to the obfervatiot) of the gen tleman from Virginia, that our merchants would continue to acquiesce in the present state Of thing-, it might be so ; but he thought they had* a just claim upon the United States. He believed they were gen erally unwilling to arm, except under the - regulations of the United States ; but they cught not to take advantage of this acqui efccnce, and fay to them, without concern, " you should go to sea and run your rifles as usual," Under these disadvantages, he did not think they should. As to our present fituatifln with refpedt to France, he did not think it ought to be alluded to, as the pro . posed regulations,' as had before been ob served, were not intended to operate against thern, or any other nation, but against the piracies committed by order of Vi&er Hugues, or any other marauder, who may set up his authority in that quarter of the world. So desirous were the merchants of having a defence against this description of veflels, that since they could not carry out real guns, they have lately resorted to the carrying of wooden guns, that they might at least have the appearance of defence upon their veflels. lie thought to be obliged to have recourse to this practice, was derogato ry to the honour of the nation. Mr. Dana said, it was not very liberal to ascribe to the committee who reported this bill, motives which they themselves did not avow. If he did not mistake the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Nicholas) he had said that this bill was calculated to mislead the paflions of our citizens, and prepare them for war. The committee had not stated a- I ny thing of this kind. Th<y had stated an evil to exist, and proposed a remedy. The depredations which had been committed up on our commerce by pirates, unauthorized by any government, were notorious; and that we had a right to defend ourselves a gainst them, was admitted on all hands ; but there was a neceflity for the interfer ence of Congress in the business, and, for this purpose, the present bill was reported. The measures proposed had been spoken of as measures ofhoftility ; they were 110 fueh thing ; he would not adopt any meafureo now, that he would not adopt in a state of profound peace, and the present bill was no more than a part of our general system for the regulation of the conduft of our mer chants. Mr. D. alluded to the order which had been iffhed by the late and present Pre sident in relation to the fubjeft of arming, and Slewed the neceflity there was for an in- j tcrference of Congress. He did not think i this question was decided the last fffllon. — j , But it was laid, that this fubjeft woujd in- • terfere with the negociat ns now carrying oil with the French republic. Thisrwas a Jlrange argument indeed. What were the ! , principles laid down by France with refpeft ] ( to this country. They fay " they will res- j , pe6t treaties, when it is their interest to do ■ , so." He, therefore, supposed it would be J J as much for the interest of France to be at j peace with us, if our veflels were ,armed, as j j if they were not. Thci,e was another prin- j ciple. They will " r<*fpedt our rights, when j we know how to make them refpe&ed."— ( Could this regulation, therefore,weaken that , refpedt ? He thought not. To poll pone - . j the e'lefti.jtlj from fueh a motive, wjjuld be h.tim mating. It wanld be faying,' we dare n;.t take any measures of defence against the marauders on our coail, }<ft we fhoiild give offence to a foreign power. He hoped they should not be thus influenced. ■it r ' Thatcher said,. he did not rife to in j voke th-genius of America, or any other genius. He did not believe is any genii. ' He wished to attention of th;-noufe ■ to trie queilion, which he thought they had 1 forgotten.; for he belle vedy any one coming into the fioufe, in the course of the debate, might have guefled for forty years and not 1 found it out. The queftipn was, whether ' the former vote should be re-considered. It ■ was immaterial whether a pa£[ion for France or any other itrong paSion, had overruled reason and influenced the vote. It was fttf ficient that .two or three persons had stated , themselves as ni.(taken in their vote, to wish j- -the queih'on to be r'e-confidered. If this were the queflion, he did not fee what they had to 80 with the war in Europe, or with the' negociations carrying on Wtth France ; but, as it had been the practice to abandon the questiOn, and raise other fubjefts, he ( would take the liberty of following the ex ( ample which had been vfet, by remarking • upon what had been said. [The Speaker j fignified to Mr. T. that, in doing so, he > would be out of order, and having exprefT -1 ed his intention, the deviation could not be , admitted.] Mr. T. however, continued to -make some observations on what had fallen from the gentleman from N. Carolina (Mr. M'Dowell) as to thepropofed mcafure hav ing effeft upon the negotiation. This, he shewed, to' be next to impolfible, as we were J expefting to hear from our tlegociators ev ery day, and they could not hear of the | proceedings of congress on this ftibjedt for two months to come. The question, said be, 13 to arm against rovers and pirates, and surely gentlemen would not fay that the Terrible Republic were a set of rovers and pirates ; but they must fay so, if they said this bill was against them. He believed frauce refpe'fted itfelf too much to fay this bill was intended against her. The gentle man frtjm Virginia»( Mr. Nicholas) had said there was no change irt the fltuation of things since last feflion ; but he believed there was this change, as it refpe&ed com merce ; we were now mere allured than e vcr, that the chief of the depredations com mitted upon our commerce were committed by unauthorized marauders. M. T. con cluded with reading an extrail from the President's speech, as conveying his fanti mcnts with r*fpecl to the difadjufted affairs of Europe, the general want of morality, and religion, and the conftquent uncertain ty of permanent peace. Mr. Baldwin said, if the original question had now been whether the cofifiJeration of this fubje£t should be postponed for three or four weeks, he should have felt himfelf indifferent as to the ifTue. But it was with regret he saw the question brought back for conGdcration. The gentleman last up had spoken of three gentlemen having been mis taken, and wishing to change their votes. He heard but of one, as the gentleman who seconded the motio'n, did it only that the mover might have an .opportunity of voting as he wished. He did not think, therefore, that this was a fufficient ground for recon sideration of the vote which had been tak en. When the house voted upon a ques tion, without argument, it must be fuppo led they voted from conviction. A mo tion for the reconsidering of a fubjcfl was not a favorite motion ; since a repetition of such iViotioos would make it next to impos sible to proceed with the public bufiuefs. The queflion of arming or not arming, he said, would yet come before them in a va riety of shapes, before the bill could be ma tured, that there was no neceflity of arrest ing it in its present stage. He himfelf ex pected that when the firft Monday in Feb ruary moved, some of the committee who reported the bill, would have propo sed a ihorter time ; but, when they did not he supposed they thus argued, " We have considered the fubjeft for four or fiveweeks; we will give other gentlementhe fame time." And he believed, if they so judged, it was the lieft course which could-he taken ; for the longer time there was "given frtr confid ing and maturing the fubjedt, the greater probability there would be of coming to a speedy ani proper decifior.. Mr. J. Williams was in favour of re-con fideringthe vote. The a£t of 1794, he said had been differently construed, and the soon er congress determined the true eonftruftion the better. To put off the fubje£t for five weeks, would occasion considerable loss to the merchants, as they did not know what event's might arise. If the fubjedt was- not adted upon till the firft Monday in February it would be the firft of March before the a£t was pafied, and the firft of April before it could be known at the extreme parts of the union. He himfelf was undetermined whe ther it was right to authorize merchants to arm or not, but he did not wish the question so long postponed, he wished to have it dif euffed. Mr. N. Smith said, as the reasons which influenced his vote, had not been stated by any other member, he would take the liber ty of Hating them. He should vote against the re-consideration, though he agreed with gentlemen who were in favour of the bill. He thought the ftieafure a perfectly neiftral one, and such as no foreign nation had a right to take Umbrage at ; but those gen tlemen must agree with him, that it was not likely the meaftire would be silently a dopted, or without a lengthy 3nd full dis cussion. It was idle to fay, that becaufc the measure was only intended to operate a gainst piiates, there was no occasion to in troduce any Foreign nation into the difluf fion. It was certain, that whenever the fubjt£t was difcufled, our situation with re fpedt tb Foreign powers, wou'd certainly form a part of the debate, and this it was he dreaded. He believed it might do much mifehief. - He, therefore, differed with those gentlemen who wished »o get into the dif. j cuilion, ami who did not frern to want an immediate deeifion ; he firoeld have no ob jection to the decision, but, he wished, for I the present, to avoid th* discussion. Before j ifhV Teffinrf flofed, he should think it ne'cef l-fery to decide upon a meaftlre of this kind; but he wiflied to fee further before the busi ness was entered upon: he was, therefore, against ie,confide ring queftion. ' Mr. Otis replied to foaie remarks which had beep made upon what fell from Kirn, and juftififd what lie had before said, and the warmth which he felt on <he occaficn, as natural. He concluded by observing, that it was necessary to cheer th.£ spirits of the •people by a measure of this kind ; to raise the expectations of the merchants, and not to drive" commerce, which came mourning into that Honfe,' to defpa'ir; but if their hands were to be tied, and 110 proteftion was .to he given to trade,»the .-merchants fliould he their determination as soon as possible ; and told that> though they draw frclm tb<m millions of dollars a year in sup port of the revenue, yet they will not attend to their grievances until within a few weeks of the close of the session, when, perhaps, fuGcient time will r.cty remain to carry any meafuYe which may be proposed, into a law. Mr. Pinckney faiJ, as he was not a'mem ber of the' House during the last session, he hoped he ftiould be.excused in wiihing to enter into an earlier difctiffion of this quefti .on than other gentlemen seemed to wi(h.— -Hit though he was not in the Houfc at the last session, he had observed the proceed ings of It; and though fomc of the motions for arming were negatived, there were others of a defenfive nature agreed to; such as the holding in readiness Bo,oco militia, the ap propriation for repairing the forts and har bours, See. which were not thought at the -time, to be at all offenfive to any Foreign nation; and he was of opinion with those gentlemen .who believed that a law authoriz ing our merchant* to arm their vessels, could 'ntft afcrd any Foreign nation just cause of offtHQte. He was nqt surprised that his colleague (Mr. Harper) should be of a dif ferent opinion, becaufc he did not think 'so favourably of that nation, as many other gentlemen did ; but he was surprised tp heqr gentlemen who thought more favourably of nation, confiderthe measure as operat ing wholly against them. Surely means of felt-defence could not be means of offence. Nor could gentlemen fay that the French nation was the only nation which committed offences upon our trade. He had heard it said that another nation had lately captured an cquah a greater number of our vtfiels, than they had done. Bcfides, as the measure was intended more against un lawful plunderers, than regular Seizures, he could not conceive how it could be suppos ed to give offence to arty particular nation, or affeft any existing nrgociation. The on ly point to be determined, then, was when the hill should be committed. He thought the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Nicho las) had carried his idea too far, when he said, because this country-waff not prepared for war, they ought not to discuss this ques tion. He thought there wero certain time's when every free nation aught to be prepar ed for war. He meant Aylien the measure of injuries had arrived at such a pitch, that it could not be Iqnger borne. In such a cafe a nationought to meet the calamities of war, rather than to submit to farther oppressions. If the proposed measure, therefore, us in a better state for war, it .was a recommen dation of it, as Strength, 3nd not Weakncfi, was the best preservative against war ; as, if a [people were prepared for war, nations would be careful how they insulted them. He wished, therefore, to put this country into that finuation as soon as possible. To poftpono the question so long a time as had been would be a very unusual measure. ft would look like a wish to get rid of it altogether. «Whatever might be the issue of the negociation, he said, we ought to put ourselves in fopte posture of defence for our trade ; for, whether there were peace or war in Europe, there could be no objection to the arming of our mer chantmen in the way proposed. He hoped therefore, the discussion would not be post poned longer than the second Monday in January. Mr. Allen observed, that it had. been af fei lid that there had bcen up ehange in dot political fituatiou since the last session. There was one, be said. It could not then be determined whether the decree of th? 2d of Martfb was really genuine, or whether rhe letter of Merlig to our Consul was real ly authorized by th« Government of that country: Now the fafts could not be doub ted.— Mr. A. said, it had beeu injimated that the friends of this measure, would be glad to fruftrate the with France. H? did not believe . any such in- in the House. The poftponeoftin proposed, inftcad of being four wdeks,. as it had been called, lie said would be 41 days. Mr. Harper again explained the reasons ofhjk.vote. H# differed froai the gentle man last up with'refpeft to the reality of pa pers he mentioned. He believed they were last; session generally believed to be genuine. Mr. S. Smith said, h?d he beeu present when the former vote was taken, he should have besn oppofad to t(\e discussion being postponed to so diilant 4 day.; but as the hoi;fe had-come to decision on the fubjeft, he flibukl yPte against tha. qiieftion's being recoo'tideretL- Hedi-j not consider the bill before (hem giving the merchants the pri vilege to arir. their vessels, but as -rertriftiog vefTels armed from dojng mifchief. He insisted upon it merchants had a right to arm by law, notwithftandiug the Procla- ' mation of the President, which he was bold , to fay, he considered as illega l . The question for a re-confiderati«n of the former vote, (which was carried 40 to 37,) was negatived 44 to 38. THURSDAY DSCEMBER 3s. The Speiker l?.id before the honfe a letter auJ report from the secretary of the 'fVea fury, in purftuuce of a refoluiion of the houfe of the 22(3 inft. relative to the claim of General Kofciufko. The report ftateo, that the accounts of the general were fet tled at the Treasury in 1784, when a cer tificate wa3 ifTucd to liimfor 12,280 dollars and 49*90ths, bearing an interest of 6 per cent from the ift January, 1784, which wcis stipulated by a refoKition in February following, in common wish the interest due to all the foreign bfttctt's, to 6e paid annu .ally at Paris ; were granted by Congress to difeharge the principal andintrrellof thofedebts, at which time it was supposed that all the officers had received their intfreft to the !ft January, 1789; but it now appeals by the banker's account at Paris, that rjp'iniereft had been received by General J£ufciuflco for four years, viz. from 1785 to Sufficient funds to pay the interest from 1789 to '92, were in 1752 placed m Amsterdam, fubjefl to the disposal cff our minilterat Paris, that by his direction a bill for theamount was re mitted to Mr. Piackrtey, in London ; but pnrfuant to the dire&ion of general Kofci ufko, Mr. P. wrote to tbe bankers at Am sterdam to remit the amount to Leipfic, or Dresden. Whether this request was com plied with, is not kuovvn ; general Kofei ufko fays'he neverrcceived it : it therefore lay fubjeft to his disposal at Amsterdam, Leipfic or Dresden. iu September 1792, a notification was publiihed, that provision had been made for paying the prin cipal of the debt due to foreign officers, on application at the Treasury, after the 15th of O&ober following, and that the interest upon their demands would cease after the last day of.JDecember in that year. That though the certificate ifTued to the general, is dated by him to have been loft or destroy ed, yet the powers of the officers of the Treasury are competent to the payment of 12,280 dollars, 34 cents, the principal, and 2 >9+7 dollars, 33 cents iotereft, for the years /rom 1785 to 1788,- on receiving a bond of indemnification from the general ; but that they cadnot adv*n£e the interest firppofed to have beeir tranfrtiitted to Leip fic or Dresden, tlipugh payment will be immediately made for any sum which may be hereafter drawn, and credited to the U nited States at Amsterdam ; nor is it in the power, of the treasury to allow any in terest 911 the said principal, fince 1 the iftof January 1793. On motion of Mr. Dawfon; this report was referred to a co mmittee of the whole for Monday. * Mr. Varnum presented the petition of M. Landais] a French gentleman who serv ed the United States at sea, during the war, praying for a settlement of a balance, which he Bates to be due to him defer red to the committee of claims. Mr. W. Claiborne moved for the order of the day on the report upon the remon ftrjnce and petition of the Legislature of TenncfTee. Mr. Coit hoped the fubjeft might be de-' ferred till to-morrow, as there 'was a faft referred to in the report, which he wi filed to liaye fornc information upon. Upon the question being Rut,-the motion was, however carried, and the house ac cordingly resolved itfelf into a committee of the whole on the fubjeft, "Mr. Kittera in the chair, when the. following report of the committee, *vas read : " That, on investigating the causes of complaint contained in the said Remon strance and Petition, it appears, that ac cording to the boundary line between the Cherokee tribe of Indians and the inhabi tants of the said state, which was extended by the Comrniffioners of the United States, pursuant to the treaty of Holfton, in tjie course of the last Summer, the fcttlements and habitations of a considerable number .of citizens of the said state, which heretofore were supposed to b« on lands to which the Indians claim was, by that treaty, extin guished, appear to be within 4he Indian territory. That those inhabitants had been induced to believe that the lands which they occupied were not within the Indian boundary, in confequen.ee of the late Gov ernor of the South Werftern Territory hav ing, in pnrfuance of diredfiyns from the Executive-os the United States, caused a temporary line to be extended, by Comrnif fioners appointed for that By which line the settlements above mentioned were included within the lands assigned to the Territory South Weft of the Ohio (now the State of Tenneifee.) " The>committee I/kewife find, that there are divers other citizens of the said state who occupy lands, unquestionably within the Indian a& designated .by the said treaty, which lands they ppfTefs by vir-' tue of titles derived from the Hate of N. Carolina, previous to the cession of that territory, by the said state, to the general gbvernmeVit, tine condition of which cession was, that " all entries made by, or grants «<> " all and every person or persons whatfo " ever, agreeable to law, and within the " limits thereby intended to be ceded to the " United States, should have the fame force I " and efftft as if such cession had not been " made ; and that all and every right of " occupancy and preemption, and every o " tlier right, reserved by any act or ass, to " persons fettled on and occupying lands " within the limits cf ti>c lands thereby in " tended to be ceded as afoTrfaiid, should " continue to be in ful',foh.-e, iri the fame " manner as if the ceffioli -Md not been " made, and as conditions upon which'the " laid lands are ceded tothe Unj.tedStates." '• The pommittee also are informed, thit by the operation of the law, palled on the 19th day of May, 1796, for regulating the intereourfe with the Indian tribes, which law lias been carried into execution since the exteniion pfthe last line these citizens of the finte of Tennessee have been compelled tip abandon their habitations, and with their wives and fcheir children vfere, by thelateft aqcftjlnts from that country, encamped iri tii* wocds within the Tt-mieflee line. ' " The comti|fcee.thewf'..-?,- «i conf,der auoti of the premifcs, recwvuncnd, for the adoption of the house, the following resolu tion . " Refolvedi that the sum of dolhrs be appropriated for'thc relief of fuc'n citizens of the state of Ten iiedre as have rights to lands within the laid fete, by virtue of the cefiion out of the state of North Carolina, and have made adtual let dements thereon, and wh® have been deprived of the possession of the said lands by the operation of the ad for regula ting.the intarcourfe with the Indian tribes. The said sum to be fubje& to the order of the Prelident of the United States, to be expended under his direction, either in ex tinguifiing the Indian claim toMhc above described lands, in cafe he (hall deem it ex pedient ta hold a treaty for "that purpose, or be difpofecfof in such other manner as he (hall deem best calculated to afford the persons hereiu described atemporary relief." Mr. Coit said, the fadl upon which he wanted information Was that refpedting the temporary line which was said to have been run. He wished- to know what evidence the committee had before them on (his fubje£t. Mr. Pinckney (the chairman of the fe ,le£t committee) said, that the testimony which they had received on thfs fubjedt, was frt>m the member from that diftridt, which was corroborated by that of a member of the senate from that state, who said he had his information from the governor of the south-western territory himfelf. This cir cumltance was not particularly noticed in the application made to the secretary of war ; only fgeneral information was called' for, and lie was silent as to this point. Mr. Coit thought official information ought to h»e been had. Mr. W. Claiborne said, he had applied to the Secretary at war oh this fubjedt, and received for answer from him, that his gene ral report to the committee of the Senate contained all the informatinn proper' to be communicated; ichen, therefore", he found this information was not contained in the report, he supposed i; was fueh as he did not think proper to communicate. The fadl, he said, was well known in the state of Ten nessee, and it wasgenerally received'opin ion, that the line had been extended,by the President. He himfelf was in habits of in timacy with the commissioners, and Ire had more than once heard the fadt from them. He believed gentlemen from North-Caroli na and Virginia were also acquainted with it. He did not, however, believe the fadt essential. If it were a truth that there were citizens in the state of Tennessee who had been forced to abandon possessions fairly ob tained from the state of N. Carolina, it was . fufficient to warrant any measure which (hould be calculated to afford them imme diate and adequate relief. Mr. Pinckney was in h6pes the testimo ny upon which the committee had adted, would have proved fatisfa&ory to the gen tleman from Connedticut, but he feerned to think they Ought to have had official docu ments. If that gentleman had attended to the report of the Secretary of War, he would have seen that any farther application by them for information, would have been improper, as (he Secretary there declared the business to be " of a nature exclusively executive 'and that he there gaVe as much information on the fubjedt as he thought neceftary. If the evidence upon which tlpe committee had adted, was not thought fuf ficient, the house would, of course, call for fiich other as they might think proper. Mr.-Macon had no objection to any other information being obtained. It might be, however, that the information communicat ed by the member of tt|e Senate, was offi cial, gs one of thofegentlemen had been in an official charadter. Mr. Pinckney said the member of th« Senate whom he had alluded to, was Mr. Jackson. Mr. Blount had no doubt but the infor mation required, might be obtained from the Secretary of' War ; and, if the commit tee were to rife, he (htfuld make a motion to that effect. He had himfelf been told that the line in queftiop was run, by the commissioners who ran it ; and hi had been flrewn by a gentleman who attended tht running of it, the diredtion it t6ok. How it happened that the Secretary of War had not mentioned it, Tie was at a fofstcj know. Mr. Dayton (the Speaker) moved that the committee rife, in ordfr to obtain the information required. It appeared to him that they had been premature in going into a committee of the whole. He recplledted something of the line of experiment being run, and of the Indi<!!» being diffatisfied with it. He understood also, that in conse quence of the diffatisfadtion of the Indians, tfyere was an additional allowance made to them. Of this, however, he was not ve ry certain. Mr. N. Smith hoped the committee would rife, in order that the information wanted might be obtained from the Secreta ry bf War. He did not believe that the line of experiment was run by the diredtion of the Executive, because he did not think the Executive''would dire£t any other line to be run than . such as was prescribed by treaty. At the fame time, he would not be understood to discredit the information given. Gentlemeu did not fay they knew the ffc.a tbemfelves, but that it was general ly uiulerjwd.to.be Ui. There wre'many things said. to bt uudsrjhod, in that quarter, -with reipedt to which the people ought to be undeceived. He believed this to be one of those things. He did not believe the Secretary Sf.War had declined giving in formation as to this point, because it inter fered; with Executive buiinefs, as it was merely'to know whether a certain thing had been done by Executive authority, or not. The e were many things in the remonstrance and petition, with which the Executive conceived the legislature had no.tl)iiig to do; but, as to the point in question, there could be no objection to giving the information required,
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