8 4eratd. CARLISLE; Friday, Febuary,l4lBol. Appo'n6lloll'l, by.tho Governor ROOT. MCC/OLT:11:Y Eery to bo AuctiOneci. for the borough of Carlisle, in the. Om of Wm. GovLn Esq. • . Counting tho . latectoral Votc. , -On Wednesday the formal counting of the electoral vote for• President and Vice President Aeok place in jho Flail of the house of Repro, sentAtives, and Abraham Lincoln, and Hanni bal Hamlin wets declared duly lectedyresir dent and Vice:President of the finited Sines, .for four.years from A° 4th of4llareb 1861. Tile 22d 'Ettlistrgisbytrg The nelebration of. Washington's birth day, at 'Harrisburg, under the auspices of the joint committee of the Legislature, promises to•be a grand affair. A general inidtatinif is nstend ed to the .Idilitary, Mason, Odd;tllows, and other organizations, of the Slate, to participate on the occasion. GOILVIII. 11. Kelm will com mand the military, and Robert A. Lamberton Esq., is to act as Chief ,Marslfat of the civic portion of the procession. If the , 4 „Militliry, ar other associations of Carlisle, intend to take part in the parade, it js high time they were making -arrangements, No doubt a special train will be run by the Cumberland Valley Rail Road. • . 151 St. JUNKINS SPEECII. l;, We call the talent it'd' of our reader's' ittibe 'speech of Mr. Junkin, our representative in Congress, refuting the charge made by Afr. Webster, ono of the representatives from Mary land, who stated on the floor of the House, , that Mr. Kennedy of Hagerstown, had been murdered in the streets of ' Carlisle While in the act of recapturing a fugitive slave. Wm. H. Miller Esq., of this place, who was the at- Jorney of Mr. Kennedy at the time, sent a ' statement of the facts, to Washington and it ;is due to Mr. Junkin, to say, thathe took the -! earliest opportunity, after receithg the infer irritation, to vindicate the citizens of Carlisle, from the slanderous charge: In (Ming so, he has done full justice to.the conservative senti ment of PennsylVania, and while he Oserts the honesty of purpose which governs the Ro• publican party, he is willing to concede to the South, all that they have a right to ask, orthat horioroble and patriotic men can grant, to restore that fraternal feeling 'Melt is the ctrest bond of union. y• commend thisspeech to the careful consideration of our readers. The Pcnco Congress In the Convention now in cession at Wash- ington. for. the purpose of agreeing on some bags, by •dilGculu c s between the Southern and Northern Stales may be har monized, the following States are represented: Fui:❑ STATES. ' SLAVE STATES. New Ilamphire, Mass:whoseits, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, lowa. The several propositions for an amicable settlement have been referred to a committee of one delegate from each Stale. So far they have sat with closed doors, and but little is known of their proceedings. The general im pression seems to be that .the deliberations, will not result in any measiplittg peace. • Later accounts fromell'asi4gton state that it is thought the conference;wilriecommend the reference of the questions' in dispute to 'a national convention, and that they will not seek the action of Congress: 'The plan is re garded by ninny as the most practicable method of adjustment., STATE LUNATIC ASYLUM The - annual report`of the Superintendent of the State Lunatieqsylum, has been received. The number of patients admitted during the year 1860, was 144—males 73, females, 71. The number discharged during the same peri od, was 127 ; number iu the Hospital, Decem ber 31, 4 1860; was 201, and the.wholanumber under medical treatment during the year 418. This'lnstitution has now been in operation about nine years; dtiring which time, 1336 patients have been under its care. Of these 201 remain under treatment, 230 have been discharged restored to health, 263 are in vari ous states of improvement ; 368 have been ta ken out without material impinvement, and 178 have died. . The receipts from all sources during the year, ineluding a donation of $15;000 from the State, amounted to $56,705 54, and the expenditureS , , to $56,702 95. - . The price of board, including washing, mending and atten dance, for all who aro supported at the public cheap, is $2,50 a week. For private patients or- those supporte . d by themselves or their friends, the price varies from $3 4, - $t per J... week, according to the trouble and ex ens° incurred, and according to their ability t pay. Pereons'desiring special information on the subject, will receive it by addressing, Dr. J. Kirwan, Superintendent, Harrisburg Pa: SLURP AND TO TUE POlNT.—Senator Hale, one of the wittiest Men of theage, and barring his ,abolition proclivities, as good a man as there is now in the Sc . :tate, was prompted to make one of his peculiar speeches on the oc casion of the Secession of Louisiana, right after Senators Slidell and Benjamin had Made their farewell addresses. In this instance, Senator Jo Lane "put his foot in it," by ask ing Bale some questions as will be seen : Mr. Hale said ho wanted to protest against the assertion that the North were making war. ()tithe contrary, the position of the North was such as toaubjeotthom to thechargeof coward ice instead of making war. The tionorablo Senator had said the use of force in the North would be favorable to his section. Let not the Senator lay that flattering unction to his soul. If War' should come—which God avert —the first thing wewill do will be takocare of Northern traitors. • j, Mr. Lane, of Oregon, wanted t'o know, right here, who ho called traitors. Mr. Bale 'said ho meat exaotly those man who fight against their owe State. Mr. Lane—They are fighting for the 'Con stitution and for the rights of the States; and I wl.ll alloW ne man to call them traitors ! Mr, Gale, mild ho wanted to define no man's ' position, put ho repeated that, if, they were forced into war, they would, first, take care of treason ot home. The 'honorable Senator had referred to the going out, of the ton tribes. So they, did go odt, but they left the ark of the covenant of the living God with, tlui tribe of Judah. ' The tribes did go ,out, .and neither !God:nor anybody, else knows where they have 'gene.lleltoped such would not be the fate. of the tribes,uow endeavoring to get out. .Itlfssi.—There Ives ooined at the U. S. Mint-in Philadelphia, in the month of Jsnary, just olosetl, $8,148,421 'OO, • 'nearly all, in eagids, or $2O gold pieces. This Is the largeni 7 aulcinnt ever coined in a single month 'at. thii:Mint erne - Untied States. • At the time the Pennsylvania 'Rail' Road Company, received al charter front tho t State for the contitructie# l of a flail Road to Pitts buig, the Legislature, under the impression that the construction of thin road, would.seri•, ously impair the trade, orAe tunin g line of the PublioWorks, levied on the Company a tonnage lax, .to oomponsate,the'State for'llte apprehended loss of -irenue. It was held, at the time, that the imposition of nits tax was inconsistent with just and liberal commer cial principles, trttf iffijust because no other road was subjected to the same exactions. It is alleged also, that this anticipated loss never , occurred, no the Public Worksoyere made more productive, by the Meru:sod freight over the With:We road, and that the revenue to the State from thxalion had largely increased, in consequence of the increased value of property, arising from the argumented business of the country thre f ugh which the road passes. ,sustain tliis latter position, the friends of the company offer the following tables compiled from the repofts of the Revenue Boards of 1851 and 1860, to show the increase in the valbe of real estate in the various counties through Which the Pennsylvania Rail Road passes, Which has, taken place during the lah niue years: Allegheny, Blair. Cambria, Chester, Dauphin, Huntingdon, Indiana, Juniata, Laneaker, llin, •Perry, Philadelphia Westmoreland, Increase of valuation, Add Delaware co. (casually omitted:) Increase, $2,500,000 4228,561 If only half of this increased value, amount ing in round numbers to $20,861,280 be ta ken,'as having been caused by the comple tion and successful operation of - Ibis great commercial highway, then this Waren:. ed value. at 26 mill rate, pays annually into' the State treasury $54,321 00. ' There is also an objection urged against the Tonnage Tax, that it opjrates unequally, -be-- cause it falls on that portion of the community who use the road for (lie transportation of their goods, for the benefit- oNhose who liave no claim to the property thus carried. The amount of tonnage. tax paid by'. the Pennsylvania Rail Road Co'y. to the . State, froth the date of its construction until July 1858i-was-$9&2--Bl*-a (+ha t- time-the tom pa ny refused to continue this payment, until the Courts should pass upon the oonstitutionnlity of the law.., , ,Since.July 1858, until 1860, (lie sum of $061,188, has accruedagainst the Penusylva'nia Itnil Road Company, on ae count of this tax. Virginia, - - 13 : c I a wiirer - - laryland, Kentucky, Alissouri, North Carolina, Tenumee. Last week a bill was presented to the Legis lature for the commutation of this TOll nage ilta,xdilsjulropos ais_distribute the mount now due, by the Pennsylvimia Itail 4 ReadCo'y. to the State, among . - several miner rail roads, to allsist, in putting them in operation t by which certain sections of the State whose mine ral resources are' still undeveloped, will ob tain access to market; and apo, to anticipate the payments duo to the State, on account of the solo of the Public Works. How far the interests of the Stale are to be benefited by relie'ving this great thoroughfare, front such exactions so' at/to bring it into successful compelition• with the Now York roads, we leave for others to determine. 'Cuts reason for noticing the Measure now in pro. gress, arises from the fact, that in this county, there is a very generalleeling against the re peal of that lax; on the ground that it. was a condition agreed on betivcen the company nail ilic&rite, 'for a' franehiSe—granted-brthq latter. Our Republican County 'Conliention la4t. fall, required a public pledge from the candidates for the Legislature, that they were opposed to the repeal of that tax ; and they will assuredly hold them to a strict fulfilment, unless they, can show good end sufficient rea sons for a change of opinion. THE SOUTHERN CONVENTION The Southern Congress, has adopted a Con stitution for a Provisitinal Government, to con tinue one year. By the Constitution the African slave trade id prohibited, an4-mea sures are to be taken for the peaceable settle ment between the State forming this Provin cial Government, and their late confederates; the United States of North America, in xeln lion to the common property. Jefferson Davis of Mississippi vas elected Fresident, and A. 11. Stephens of Georgi&Vice President of the Confederacy. An ordinance was passed continuing in force until repealed or altered by Congress, all laws of the United States in force , ior use up toile .firpt of November last, withiliaCou stitutiontotthe Provisional Government. , It is understooinbatmnder this law a tariff will be laid ouall goods brought from the Uni ted States. A resolution was also adopted instructing the Cominittee on Finance to report promptly a tariff for raising revenue to s upport the Gov- eminent A resolution was adopted authorizing the appointment of a committee to report a Con stitution for the permanent Government of the Confederacy. On the 12th the Congress passed the follow ing resolution : Resolved, That this government takes under its charge the questions of the difficulties now e :fisting between the sovereign Stiles of this confederacy and the government of the United States relatingto the occupation of tbrts, arse nals, navy yards"and other public establish ments. And the President of this Congress is directed to communicate this resolution to thi Governors of the several States. The adoptieit of this resolution, will very likely postpone the attack on Fort Sumter. JACKSON, Miss. Monday Feb. 11, D 361. Gen. Davis arrived here this evening on his way to Montgomery. lle was received with grand military and civic honors. In a speech at-the Capital he t4id, if war MIA come it 'must-be upon Northern and not upon South ern soil ;. bdt if•tho North is prepared to grant us pence and recognize .our equallity all will be well. POSTING TIIE BOOKS.—The Runt)Henna were in glear minority in both branches of Con gress fl, a full, representation. But alieady six Locofoco States have gone out; with a loss of 12' Senators' and 81 Representatives, all secessionists and Deniocrats of course.; -- This makes tho. Senate a tie—to wit ;, 26 Republi cans, 21 Demeorats, and 2 South Americans f while' the House elands: Republicans, 114. All others, 61-41epublioan majority over al4 28. As soon as Texas withdrawsthaßepubli cans will have a clear majority. in botOlouses of Congress. ~!,. ter JUDGE WRIGHT of .Ohio, ono of the .Pcnon CorntnNsidere at Iyaahingian,died from Tairalyeizi, on Monday. • =I 1851 1860. 24,008.220 25,822,768 4,042,564 5,018,206 1,003.186 1,1108,111 21,899,48 . 23,785,709 9,781,49'3 11,796,225 6,403,663 4,666,405 2,634,692 2,753,062 2,700,392 2,762,705 30,615,081 35,025,37: 9,153,770 4,130,71'1 3,057,600 3,130 J 3 136 869,027 164,551. 82 . 7,663,939 7,888,650 $253,525,663 $292,754,201 253,625,568 Total, Total '4 The Per Went eleei. . ' CONGIREpSSIONAL. ' . . On Monday 'ILA, Mr. Lincoln left Spring- Saturday Feb. 9.--In the Senate, Mr. Sew field for Washington. As the train was about and presented petitions asking fora settlement . to 'start,' he stood on the platform of the car, .of the ,difficulties 'of ..the country ;, also the and spoke as follows: ' resolutions of the' Legislature .of New York. "My friends: No ono, in my position, can Mt. Crittenden presented the memorial of appreciate thasadness I feel at this parting.-- To the people 1 owe all that I am. 'Here .1 citizens cif' Kentucky in favor: of the Crit tea haveliled more than a quarter of a century; den : resohitions. The Indian Appropriation hero my children were born, and here 'one of bill wardisenssedat some 'cow h. The Naval thins his buried. 1 know not how soon 1 shall , Appropriation bill was passed. The Senate see you again. A duty devolves upon me which •is, perhaps, greater than any which has deoiolv; "then adjourned till Monday. • ed upon any man since The days of Watffiington.. In the House, Mn'. Cox, of Ohio, offered an Ho never would have succeeded, exhelit for tht amendment to the .Senate" bill, providing for aid of Divine Providence, upon which he 1e , .,;e territorial government Of Colorado. It pro times relied. 1 feel that I cannot suc ed-., - 'without. the same Divine aid which sustained-'' poses to 'allow the people , to assemble, and him, and in. the saute Almighty being I place ,form for theinselvos,ah.organic law and terri- my reliance and support. 1 'holm you, my tridnds, will all pray that I may receive that Divine as:aistanco without which I cannot suc ceed, but:. with which suceeEs is certain,— Again, I,bid you all au affectionate farOvell." [Loud applause, and'eries of " IVe will pray tor you."] During the speech Mr. Lincoln betrayed touch emotion, and the crowd was Affected to tears. The train left precisely,at half-past eight o'clock. The following persons accompried Mr Lincoln: J. G. Nicolay, private secretary of the President elect; John Hay, Robert L. Lin coln, Major Hunter. If. S.A. ; Colonel Sumner U. S. A ; Colonel E. Ellsworth; lion. John K. Dubys, State Auditor; Colonel IV. 11. Lamer, Aid to Governor. Yates ; Judge Ddvid Davis, lion. 0. II Browniugt E. L. Baiter; editor of the Springfield Journtlll; Robert'lrwin,• N: B. Judds and George "Lathain. ' Mr. Lincoln, on his way to WashingtOn, will visit Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Pittsburg, Cleveland, Buffalo, Albany and New yorlr. It is expected that he will visit Trenton N. J., about the 20th. At Cincinnati the President elect was receiv ed with an enthusiastic display t. he, made. a short address to the people, which was received with great enthusiasm. =I Returns from Tennessee, of the election held for • Delegates to the . I Stato - Convention indicate that the Union Candidates have an aggregate majority of about 50;000, and that the question of calling ii convention, has.becu negatived by ;10,000. $3U,228,611 $41,728,561 The Koinelcy Legislature have adjourned until the 20th of 1lltir(311, to await, the action of the Peace Commissioners at Wa,agion. =I The Legislature is busily eugagrd dispatch ing business, and will probably adjourn - next week. Several Railroad.bills have been pas's ed, niakiug a State appropriation therefor Tiki Revenue bill, now under consideration, Lowers the tax on many articles. The Texas Convention has passed an ordi nance favoring the formation of a Southern Confederacy, and elected seven delegates to the Southern Congress. Tho Convention boo 'adopted a State flog. It conEists of a red field with a single pale yellow ti tor, and thirteen stripes, blue, white, and red. The ordinance tanking it a penal offence for pilotsat the 11.ilize to bring over the bar any United States war vessel has passed. Theordintince to accept the criminal law of the United States District Court was adopted. The Governor transmitted Co the Legislature a communication from Judge Robertson, CoM missioner to the seceeding State's, dated Mont. gomery Feb. 3. He 0030 the Governor of GeOrgia accepts, the mediation of Virginia; and gives assurance authentic that Georgia will abstain, during the period contemplated, from all nets calculated to produce a collision of arms between that State and the General Government. The Commissioner believed that the Governor of Alabama will give a favera ble'answe'r, and tiled. South Carolina will,con form her course to the action or recommenda tion of the Southern Confederation. -LEGISLATIVE riday Feb,_B.--4n noun, aietter_Was read from i‘lajor Anderson, in which lie re turns thanks for the -resolutions pasSed last mouth by the Legislature.. Some seventeen bills were announced to have been signed by the Governor, The House then took up the message from -the Governor, transmitting a communication lie had received from the Sec retory of the Treasury of the United States, relative to the endorsement by the State, of the bonds of the general government, to the amount of 2,800,000, that amount having been loaned thn State by the government in the distribution of the public lands among the States in 1830. After some discussion Ale joint, resolutions accompanying the message, were passed, hav ing previously passed the Senate. In the evening session/the bill increasing the jurisdiction of Justices of the Peace from $lOOlO $2OO was passed. The bill—relative to mechanics' liens, extending theAen to all mechanics and lumber-men doing work, and furnishing materials for agricultural socie ties or associations, was negatived. (louse then ad%urned until three o'clock on Monday afternoon. Monday Feb. 11.—In the Senate, a number of communicatimm,seports, etc., Were receiv ed. and several bills read iu s place. Several private bills were passed. In 11% House a large number of petitions 'memorials, etc.; were presented. The annual statement of the University of Pennsylvania was read. A resolution was adopted reques ting the PennsylVania delegation in Congress to advocate the immediate suspension of the postal system in the seceedinges. The debate on the resolutions relative to arming the Stato.was renewed and the sub ject postponed. :'tA resolution was adopted re '9uestAgthe Auditor General, to inform the House of the amount in arrears and due friim the Pennsylvania Railroad on account of the tonage tax. Tuesday, Fob. 12,—1n the Senate, a large number of petitions, memorials' and rmnon• strances were read, and several hills were read in place. A large number of 'private' bills were4mased. In the House the proceedings were unim portant. The Georgia Reprisals Our renders aro aware that certain boxes, containing muskets destitied for Georgia •on board the ateatM , hip Monticello at Now York were seized by the authorities. The Gov. of Georgia, made a demand on the Gov. of New York, for the immediate delivery of the arms. As no response was given to this de mand, the Governo . r ordered all the ships in the harbor at Savanah, belonging to citizens of New York, to be seized, and hold until the arms were delivered. In consequence of, this order 6ve vessels were taken. It is now sta ted that the muskets have been giVen up, and' the vessels .released.. • „„ . EFFEOT or THE....,0T0MV.-J./10 storm Of last week curried away three spans of the North -4n Central Itailrord bridge'aoross the Swing , henna, at Dauphin. 'The, loss: of the :bridge will uot interrupt the travel, althoughlts cd:; feels will be seriously felt by Die comppay. Itenthelcy UM Lo ulnlnlift N I rg In I n. aerial governmwt, to consist of a Legislature, Judiciab'und Executive Department, &c. It is substantially the Douglas amendment which was offered in the Semite: It was ordered . l o )be printed. Mr. Thames, of Tennessee, ob jected to the consideration of a-bill, :reported from the Committee on Military Affairs, rip .propriating $ll5O to pay the musiciansettal _soldiers for instruments, clothing and furni ture, lost by them in the removal from Fort Moultrie to Fort Stunter:. The consideration of the report of the EOM . - m i itteo of thirty three, was postponed until Tliursday. • • Monday Feb. 11.—D1 - I,he Semite, a num-. ben of petitions in relation to the state of the country were presented. Another conference committee was appointed on the Deficiency bill After postponing Ahe consideration of the President's message till Thursday, the Na , yal Appropriation bill wits luken up. A num ber of a infindments were mace in thecominittee, including one ordering the building of seven sloops of-war. After the amendment was re ported to the Senate, considerable discussion ensued, but no vote ivas arrived at before the adjournment. - In the - noose, several pel it ions and memori. ale were presented. A series of resolutions were offered and referred to the Committee o n Foreigh AffairS, instructing the Presided!. to acknowledge the inderiendzace of the southern confederacy, ns Boon as he receives olliciuliu formation of its establishment. A resolution was ndopted recomending to the people of the United States, the celebrat ion of the 22d of February, no a National holiday. The following resonation was introduced Ly Mr. Palmer, of New York : That neither the Federal government nor the. people, nor the government of. the non slaveholding' Stales, have any purpose or n constitutional .right to legit - 311de upon, or_ interfere with slavery in any State in the Union. The yeas and nays were called and the resolution passed. The following resolution offered by Mr. Sher/ was afterwards adopted a substitute: Received, - That. 'neither Congress nor the people, nor the government of the non-slave holding States hose tiny constitutional right to legislate upon or interfere With slavery in any of the slave holding States of the Union. Tuesday Fel, 12 —ln the Senate, the wand number of petitions, memorials and remon- - strances'were „ itresented. { linongst otherpe titions was one presented by :llri Crittenden, in favor of his comproptise, and signed by 23,- 000 citizens of Massachusetts. A sharp de bate thed ensuedbetween Messrs. Sun n and Crittenden, after which the Naval Appropria tion bill was token up. Mr. Green, of Miss ouri took the flocir, and spoke at sonic length, taking the ground that-Fort Sumter is not the property of the United States, and conse4nent• ly is wrongfully withheld from South Crrolina. In the Ilitute, a report was received 'from slue Committee 041 the Indian Trust Bond abstrap - Lions and iirdo , red to, be printed. After some unimportant business the Senate amendments to the Pacific Itaihmid bill were taken Up,- dud discussed at some length, when the Mouse ad- journed. Lotrot front Ohnrletiton: 1116 following startling,,and and highly in flammatory, telegram affords the late and later anti latest news !Vora our irritated " sis." - Special and direct through the only line nLead of time,: " CHARIXSTON, Slipper time; Feb. 4, A. D., 1861,—A1l the babies in thert,iro South are in arms, and many in this eity, are now em ployed at the breast works." " Two and One•holf Later.—lhnt dredu of the noble women of Smith Carolina are•behinll the breast works, and they boldly express their detern.ination to remain there.' Later—Three•quarkrs of a Minute.— A number if the young ladiei were in arms daring the gloater part of last even ing, and many more are still anxious to follow the self sacrificing example of their met Shame on the young men." !'.!One Quarter of a Minute Later.—We have learned from a reliable source, that the study of military tactics will be introduced into the female schools of this State immediately, as the spirited girls declare is willingness to take charge of the South Carolina •infantry,' which is yet to be raised." "A report trom the interior says the ne roes 'wear' drilling, but it needs conlirda-, lion. Everybody is in ablaze of enthusiasm,' and thq gas company lens suspended in cause quenci."—Ar, Carolina Standard. AN.AurnED man named Wet. Weaver, of Bloomfield, •Perrs Co., was arrested near Christiana, Lancaster ,Co., last isteek, on- the 'charge of having murdered his wife, who died in Bloomfield, on the 24th of December last. -; Three days after the'death of his wife, he left Dloothfield, and a girl mysteriously left at the same time.. Ills wife's remains hove been exhumed, and the stomach , sent to Philadelphia to be analyzed. GEN'. LANE.—Joe Lane . I , li , ofe a let ter to his wife, giving his views of the staie . of the Union. , Hero is the letter as reported fur the' Ka nkaree Gazette.: Nu orleuso, jan 10 1861 Dear Gone, I write to tel you that i have disso lilted, in kommon with the Sowth. We ar afeard of Jeems linehanan, he Is 2 korrupt fur us, & we hair rerolved to thro him on the tender Mercy of the north. i can't tel when i 1%11 ce you. the Contry neds my service; and i wou't giv bar up. Ur rite, eel the cow and get som money, fur, i expect a offie now, . Your husband, • Joe. Lane. Attempt at Murder-with nu 11=11=121 PITTSBURGH, Pa., Feb: 11, 1801 There was a dinbolimil attempt to destroy the family of Augustus Hoevieroz well-known citizen of Lawrenceville, by an " infernal ma chine," on Saturday night. The machine was plaued on the, window sill, and fired by means of a fuse. The whole front of the building was shat tered by the explosion. which was as loud as discharge of ordnanCe, Several bullets struck in different. parts of the roam in which Homy-. ler's family were sleeping, but nll miraculously escaped injury. There is no clue to the per petrator of the fiendish act. . Shucking vedaintiy. thinamlo, Monday, Feb. 1.1; 1861, 'Seven parsons .were drowned yesterday,. while attempting to .eross a small stream - in' Mercer County, Illinois, in a sleigh. The party consistmlof 'an old.roan named - Minty, Mrs. Mary Haydes. and two children Mrs, Elizabeth -Hodson (1111 Li% children, and-Mrs.' Barge andtwo children. ,lilinty.saved himself and ono of Mrs. 'Hodsons ohildrou by swim ming. Mrs 'Hodson 'remained in tho•sleigh, holding her. uther child'on hour and a half on the side board. until ;assistance 'oame, Both' were:taken. out but .the mother shortly after. 158PBE CH OF HON. B. F• JUN - KIN • ON PENNSYLVANIA... IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, • ' I , :clorttOly, 7, 1861. The Hoorn Lnvlug under cont.hkistion the report from the Select Committee of Thlrty.Tts Mr. ,JUNKIN said: . Mr. Set:Asian: Ijise not 'coy the purpose 11 • of making a speech. :do not know that I have anythieg to offer upon the important • iuestions' p - resented to the consideration of ~ _this body ; but now, at this late hour the night,'l will. endeavor, in a few remarks, to .vindicate a portion of my constituents from a charge preferred against them by a gen tleman from Maryland [Mr. WatisTnad the 29th of last month. Sir, I was surprised and, confoundeCl when I heard a gent leta'n whose district joins my . own - , and between the people of whose district. and 'the people of toy district there exists the most complete harmony, assert here in' this place that the citizens of toe borough of Carlisle had mur dered a chizleti of the Stale of Maryland, in cold blood, When he was in pursuit of his slave., I hope he uttered the remark without due. consideration. I hope that it 'was noth , ing more than ahasty and ill considered ob. servation; or that, in the heat of the struggle and contest which prevailed here,.he uttered the--eharge without complete knowledge of the facts. Why, sir, when .1 shall have sent to the Clerk's desk, to be read, a statement of the ruts of the case, a statement made by the very attorney of Mr. Kennedy himself, and who witnessed the proceedings from the beginning to the end, you will learn the fact that this alleged -murder Dever was commit ted at all; that the man died of indieestionf probably, utinsued to the solid living of Penn sylvania,- he may have eaten saurkraut or cabbage. [Laughter.] Itt 18-17, Mr Kennedy, together with some other men, claiming to be the owners of two ' slaves who had sought refuge in the'lierono , of Carlisle, cutnte up there and obtaiNd pro- Cues folder the act of 1826. Ills attkwney was not apprised at the time that the Legis-' latureof Pennsylvania had repealed that law, in consequer.ce of the decision of the Su preme Court of the United States declaring it to be unconstitutional. Ile arrested the staves upon a warrant issued,by a justice of the ninon!, in conformity to the act of 1826, and 10,1 ed them in thejsil of Cumberland county:, There wits an excitement raised among the free negroes of thii'borough ; the white citizens paying but little attention to the matter. They had 110 difficulty in ar resting the slaves. In the, mean time, the negrovs obtained counsel and took out a writ- . of / a ll rerint. , :,:ind brought the slaves be tore Judge Ileplowniwho was the judge of that judicial district. Pending the exami nation, somebody informed the counsel of these two slaves that the Legislature hod just passed an net repealing the act of 1826, and to cling the law of 18-17, by which all our j ial and other officers were pruhibi- Ccd from taking cognizance in the case of an escaped slave, ur of issuing process in order , 0 arrest him. Judge Hepburn, after aseer• icing this fact, declared that he had no jurisdiction over the case; bat he told ilr. Kennedy, "There are your slaves, and you have a right to carry them home, by the common law right of re•capture." Mr. Kennedy availed himself of that ad• vice, and having sent 'for earriarr ' es for the purpose of conveying them, Mr. Miller, his coutisel, with HOMO others, came down the stairs of the court house together ; and as they approached the carriage, a free negro of the borough made a rush at him, helmv ing charge of the female slave at the time. They endeavored to seize the slaves, and to get them oil'; and in doing this .1 am not aware that they used violence toward Kea nay. Bid they endeavored tagettlie female slave away. lie battered the, negrues over the heads...with a stick ; and in the mean time the parties commenced moving from the carriages, and the whole party stumbled upon a pile sit boards, upon which Kennedy tell and fractured his. kneepan. lie was . taken to the hutel,•;•the best physician was employed, and the' citizens of Carlisle made every elfurt, , ,to . re arrest the female slave.— They also arrested all the negroes who pan delimited in the riot, tried them, and sent them to the peniteatiary. Six weeks after the oceurrenee, Kennedy hail recovered low the injury.sustained in the fight, and he made preparations-to go home. lie was about to leave next morning, when, contrary to the advice of his physician, he ate some'. .thing which produced . colic, and be died aunts time in the following night. Now, this circumstance is attested by the enamel of Kennedy, a man Of different poli tical complexion from Myself, and who never supported-mule-either of my-canvasses-11e— sends me s a letter detailing the facts in the case. That letter I send to the Clerk's desk, and ask that it may be read. *. The letter was read, as fellows : ' Ca February 1,1561. De An Sin: On the 29th IVtust rAI. of Mary. land. In reply to MIL of Pennsylvania, raid: Iwo be 1010, a student at Carlisle College, be sax• a uldte luau dint colt after ids negroes wandered in the street.'"filis statement has excited gloat indignation among our people. As It el, Idently riders to the ed Mr. Kennedy, 11l Maryland, and as I was his counsel 111 the attempt. he made to get lack Ills slaves, I am called upon by 11 11 0111 1.1.0 or our eilliens to give you a sistement of the facts lirdenial of Mr. IVEOLTEIt. They Ire simply these: t , oolo tittle tie Slay, 1847, Mr. Kennetly,.of liaAerstown, came bete in company with Mr. Hollingsworth. in pursuit of I broil slates, tell of whom belong"! to Mr. Acura dy. and 0110 to Mr. Hob lingsworth. With ut any knowledge of our act of 1847, whieli hail not yet beer. published, I pursued the old process, and bad them amid"' and taken h.tfore 111 job , LlOO of the peace. Ile remanded them to their masters, and coma fitted them , to the jail el our county until their otastets were ready to trove them.' Immediately afterwards, a large (tidy or Ir 4. blacks employed counod, and procured n 101 it of 11.1 1 .1 ti WRITS to have theta brought berme Judge I I o , lll.htin. Atter the hearing,, Juilq Hepburn wens abont remanding the negroes to the custody of the slim ill, 10111.11 bollle 0110 11l the crowd came up and mentioned to their counsel the existence ut the :Mt or 1047; forbidding jailors to receive' slaves, which he had seen published in 11 new simper. 'the counsel immediately asked 1111.10 111 1 autos 110b4101110111ellt of the case, until they could obtain the paper. It was brough & nod resulted In Judge Ileplntrit declaring that he could ' not send the negroes back tifjall. and dischtrg lug thorn (non the custody of the sheriff. But, at the same time. lie rental heti that it was clear to his mind that the owners had a perfect legit) right to take Imme diate liikession of them without 1800000, by the 14011110 act pr recant MO. Thu toasters did so at once, and sent nil for carriages to mkt: thorns away. Thu masters, as 140111d by 001110 odour citizens, kept the negroes In the , court 1101.1111 1.1 11 1 I tile can loges sbould come. As semi as they came, the masters and Omit assistants started 1101011 01.11119, 010.11 negro having a leoooll on each side, and I accomPanied 111 • 111. Ido nut think any oneseri. ' burly anticipated all attack, although we understood there was 11 01110'd 11( free negroes around the carriages. 58 hen we gut down it, the door, bar. Kennedy was In tout, with the negro woman, and the others followed In a 1,1 101 or ptocession atter, A passage nits immedi ately opened to one of the carriages by one of our pollee and 10 hods Mr.-Ketned)• gut close to the carriage ' the 1111:11). closed around hint and attempted pull the 100111011 away. Sir. Kennedy bad n sinaLl cane in his Mind, and commenced beating them over the' head. They continued pulling the 110111011 away. and the tight ',mine general. The to of negroes was dense around hint, and they succeeded in dragging the woman -off 0011111 thirty yards, he still beating . them over the Laid, until they got to a pile 01' Innards: when Mr. Kennedy 11.11. and unfortunately Iwo, the cap of his knee. In the wean time, the man was secured and driven off. The. thing 111101 Stt sudden and unexpected that every one was tattoo by tulprisol and, unfortunately; not many white mum were about but (11000 1/010 were there Immediately took shieswlth Mr. Iteunedy. and attacked the negrows: A pile of curd-word was lying stone by, from which sumo of our ribbons supplied themselves, atm beat the negroes over the head. A number of the tiegroes were severelY Injured; audio ten minutes after the riot conuneueed, there was not a negro to be ken in the square. 4flor die liennudy fell, they succeeded in tearing the ninnan loose front 11101, and running her off Into some ono of the little alleys; and, although hot .purault was immediately made by such wino nom as wore present, the negrous seal taring in every direction, and no ono of our citizens being able to indentlfy the the woman II they did see her, she escaped. Mr. Kennedy eras cnrriad to the hotel, where he lay for Wino five or FIX weeks, apparently rapidly recover- To the Burial•e and grief of every one, and while Ills physician and family thought Lewes doing as well .as could possibly be egpecteted, he sudenly died. From what cause it is Impossible I suppose. certainly to tell; but his physician (one of the most eminent in our town) dielared-lt to be from cramp In his stomach, caused by certain indigestible food whit h ho bad eaten. When his corpse was taken from town, our elthens turned out EN MAEXE as an escort, to express their deep regret, nod all the bells In town woo toiled. 1 have several Mines since visited the relatives of the deceasedond they have always expressed the kindest feeling- for the eltisens of Carlisle While the occur once has been to en a source of deep and unlvertel re gret, it Is it slandermt our people to charge them (with two exceptions) .with taking any part in it, other than to defend Kr. Kennedy to the hest of their ability un der the cireutestaners. As I skid, but a few white men were present. Ni, attack was aftprehended from the net groes; and, after the bearing to the court, nearly every one supposed the matter was Mhl, and returned home, , After the riot, the most intense excitement prevailed ' against the negrbes. Our eitixonsasiembled in crowds, , and it woe with dillicultymany of thous wore restmined from attacking the 'negro' houses,. and tearing them . .ftowu. Nodauger.was apprehended, at the time, of Mr. Renneily'i life, or I have nu doubt the negrorn would have to driven 'at once lion, The town, 'Fifteen of thommero'sobvieted and sentenced to the penitentleiy. , This explains, the feelings our. ell Merit had on the nub. • Ject, .and' shows - ill:tether, Mr. -WEnTrrx, Jualliediu representing' Them Mt murderers. , •If an opPorttultj'occurs, our cilicens wish you to cor• sect his amortions., Tours truly, • • ' Mra thin. IL h'. Jumtin. Mr:3 LINKIN. I' will adds single word. If any ,man can make murder out of thos? facts detailed by eye witnesses, by a man who •participated in the struggle, by the very attorney. (if Mr.,Kennedy himself—if, in the teeth, of that testimony, the State of Maryland or any one of her Repiesentatives can charge the people of Carlisle with • being guilty of the murder of Kennedy, then all I ean say is, that' th4.haye the queerest kind of .no (ions about criminal taw I over heard of.— The very negroes themselves' soul under the circumstances, be only convicted. f gaging in a riot, • They were so convi cd, and sent to the penitentiary for two or turn years. Thao-Fidgment•the court, however, had no right:to° pronounce, because "by the law they could only be sent to the' county jail, and they were one year afterwarda.re leased by the Supreme Court upate-/Was corpus. I would state furthe'r, hit this is not the first tittle that I have heard this ease referred toan,debate. - 1 know that the people of the South have been made to believe that two men have kett murdered in I'entisylvnnia liennedyisate. and a Mr. Gorsuch the other. I know, and my friends upon both sides of the House will beta• me out in the asseriattn, that these two cases Lave been referred to again and again i and I am free to conies's, that I was not heretolbro particularly ac quainted with the Carlisle case, nor did I feel mysClf at liberty to speak of it until I ob Mined the necessary information, which was last Monday morning. Now, I can, in some degree, at least to my own mind, account for the'extraordinary 'citement which prevaila.at the South. for if:, in such At case like this, a near neig hbor 16 Pennsylvania can see murder, I am not sur prised that the people of the South expect the North to liberate their slaves. To What proinirtions miry not the acts of the Re - publi. - Can party be niagnitied, when they distort circumstances like these into willful and downright murder? and that, too, charged against the people of Carlisle, who mire not only intelligent, but loyal, Union lovittg, and law abiding citizens. Let me tell you it is the grossest charge which could have been made against the character of that people. When the, invasiotf. into Virginia was made brjohn Brown, and some id Ilk followers escaped, and made their way into the moon• talus of Pennsylvania, this very borough or rested One of the conspirators and coadjutor of Brown—arrested hint without process o law, and upon the merest suspicion dust he teas concerned in the' raid. They noj, oniv arrested him without authority, but confined Lim in the counts. jail; and'still more, when the agent of the State of Virginia, whin made the demand upon the Governor or Pennsyl vania for the delivery of the fugitive, Was not able to identity him, these very citizens of Carlisle, who are deeounced as murderers by a Representative of all adjt ining State, held that criminal until Virginia was able to get evidence there to identify: , hint ; and he wan returned to Virginia, tried, conideted, and - suffered death. I submit whether it is fair, when we stir. rendered up . e. man, even in eft:ince of law, who had been guilty of participation in the John Brown raid—l submit whether it is fair, or whether it will tend to heal the, dif ferences which now exist between the North and the South, to make ex pule statements, and convert a 'nerd riot into a willful, mall• cious, and felonious murder. Why, sir, we have lived near to' the Commonwealth o Maryland nearly a hundred years; we h ase delivered mi to them a tbousand slaves with• in the last sixt:y years ; 'and we have done it without stint and without. limit. We have done it freely and cheerfully, not niggardly and grudgingly ; and I tell you that,'out of the one thousand slaves that we have Miv ered up to the :irate of Maryland, there never was any difficulty except about the two that I have already named— the slave of Mr. Ken nedy and The slave of Mr. Gorsuch. I sub snit, then, whether it is fait to make such charges against that good old Commonwealth. God bless her l she is a great State.. She sleeps there tonight with three millions of wlcite men in her bosom—more white men than there are in all the six seceding States. She bas not as many negroes, and, of course, no shaves, fur which God be thanked ; but there she sleeps to 'night, is .giaM in repose. She is not arming against the people of Maryland. We have not bought a musket nor even uniformed a single mart. belonging to our militia. We repose in the , confidence of our strength. We are ready at any and at all times to meet the enemies - of the lie- public, either without or within. We have confidence in the State of . Maryland. I do not believe that the people of Maryland themselves would make any such charge as this against the people — of Pennsylvania.— They have known us too long. .We have lived together in brotherly love for a hun• dred years, and, by the blessing of God, I know we will live togethet a thousand years longer. I know that we are not going to make war against one another. She shall have every right to which 'she is entitled un• der the Constitution. I pledge the Common wealth of Pennsylvania to night that not a slave will she fail to deliver up nhenever die proof is made that he owes service to his master. I assert that she never did refuse to deliver up fugitive slaves. I assert that she has delivered up more slaves than any Commonwealth in this Confederacy, and has done it cheerfully and without grudging. , Let, me now refer, for a moment, to the Case of Mr. Gorsuch, which occurred in Lan caster couilty. It has been asserted upon this floor, time and again, since Phase been .a member of this House, that Mr. Gorsuch was murdered by the people of Lancaster.— The tact is that Mr. Gorsuch was .murdered by his own slaves. He was warned, belbre he undertook to arrest them, that the negroes were known to be desperate, and that they would undoubtedly take their muster's life ; and Mr. Gorsuch swore by his Molter that he would arrest them, or die in the attempt. • Ile .made the effsrt, and was shot down by his own slave, and not by Pennsylvanians.' But it May be said that white memwere engaged in i - Well, if diet be true, I•should like to knot why they could not convict those white men? One white man was tried in 'the Fed. oral Curt, before a Federal Judge, and by t. \. a jury /selected from one half of the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania—men who entertained nc, prejudice towards the State of Maryland or the South; for my own father, an old Democrat, was• on that very jury. I should like to know why they did not con vict that white man if he waiguilty? Look at the charge of Judge Grier, in which be told the jury that there was no case made out, and that there could' not and must not be a conviction ; and the jury returned •a• verdict accordingly. And yet men stand up here, and upon their responsibility as Repro. sentatives, charge that as murder! I will not trespass upon the time of the House much longer, because I feel that I am rubbing my,friend from Ohio, [Mr. At.t.EN,] and I- feel uncommonly grateful for the op porttiniti of saying anything upon this occa sion. I do not see much use in being 'a measlier of Congress here; it would certainly be much more creditable to he a-member of a decent debating society, because one can• not get the' floor when'he wants, and should have it, to repel such charges as t e. I have watched fi ve days for this opp tunity; and it comes even now only by the iirtesy of my friend froM Ohio, [Mr. ALLE,..I Is Mr. SMITH, of North Carolina. 1 would ask ' the gentleman froni Pennsylvania for what offence the white man to whom ho al luded was tried in the Gorsuch case? ' Mr JUNKIN.; For treason, in resisting the laws.of ,the United States, and for con spiracy to prevent the execution of the fugi tive slaVe law. That was the charge, and the jury did not convict him., • • . Mr. SMITH, Of North Carolina. Was he not, discharged : on.the ground that this was a sudden ,rescue, and not a premeditated combination to resist the execution of the law ? . , Mr. JUNKIN. Ond of the grounds of his discharge was • the entire 'absence of proof establishing a pre arranged • conspiracy . to defeat and resist the execution of the fugitive slave la*. And farther, if any such prof' did Exist, (as it' did not',) the prosecution did: not offer . it'as testimony in chief,' but offered it itt rebnitar 'of thedefense: . ',Nevertheleas, it was' weldknown•tbet no Snell proof could be ,made., lianway •sois a miller, and was summoned in his shirt sleeves, and in a felt hat, by the sound of the horn and the shouts of the negroes. Under these fitco, sir, I claiM a verdict of not guilty, on -tli;is count also. Now, Mr. Speaker, we of Pennsylvania do not pretend to be better than the people are anywhere else. We have bad men among 10 , who nometimes attempt, to resist the ex'• ecution of the, fugitive sfalve law, but very rarely, because -public opinion is overwhel mingly in favor of the exceutionlof thilt We look tpon the man whe'lwould attempt such a thing (a rescue) 11.4 • worse' than a rcep rhif ; .fit is trite, we Will not permit A groes to lie taken from within our borders unless they ate taken upon good and legal grounds; and that we have,4.lo) to do.— But fassert here in my place, to•night,•that so Inr from there being any dispogition to run away slaves, I know of no underground railroad in Pennsylvania., As I said last evening, Southern men are allowed -to bring tbeir'slaves into thitt State, and. hold them there; and to return with them to the slave States from which they'eame. There is liv ing now in my town'a slave who was brought frOm the Stale orGeorgia, and has been there for thrfie or four years. I kbow•two gentle men who conic there annually from the State of Mississippi and bring their servants there, and hold - them in a Republican,town, in a Republican county, and, as I believe, in a Republican State; and any man in our com munity who would attempt to induce those slaves to leave.theirAgristers would be looked upon.as.a thief. a- I, for one, do,not understand republicanism to moan negro stealirig.:Of it is, then I ant no Republican, and nem. will be one. 111 believed, at the slime !lime, that it meant abolition, so 11011).111(i God! I would be the first ti) abandon and denounce it; and when ever gentlemen upon this floor develop the Net that the Republiciin party-is tending to Oulitionism—whenever 1. find the Republi elm ship fregintdrig to direct its prow into that terrific and fearful sea, why then.l want to lump overboar.l, even at the risk- of Jo nail's fate. I.will go with them in MI con stitutional measures, in everything that is right and fair and just, to both sections of the country; but they cannt, so help me God I pass me one step beyourl what I conceive to be my bounden ,duty. Parly or no party, plathirm or no platform, Ewalt net under the obligation of my oath,te 0 all its my power .to heal the breach that tiow - exists between the North and the South, for the sake of' the loyal Union men who .su braxely stand by the ()Id !lag of my country, even when that loyalty is pronoaeeed treason by the mad revolutioeists iii their midst. • But, 1 find thai. I was about to enter on the diseussio'n of the great question. On that my mind _is irrevocably made up. I have my verdict in my heart, and am ready to render it whenever called upon to vote. I will tell you Mr.• Speaker, what this contro• versy reulinnis me of. It puts me in Mind of a story related. inn one of Bulwer's novels.— A worthy couple, trained John and Joan, had lived happily' together ninny a I°4; year, till . 'one unlucky day they bright a new bolster ;* Juan said the bolster was too hard, and -John said — the bolster was too soft; so of course they quarreled: Aber sulking all day, they agreed to put the bolster between them,nt night. After theihad thus' lain apart pi little time, very silent and sullen, John sneezed. "God bless youl" said Joan over tlie bolster. "Did 'you say God bless, me ?" cries Jahn; . ''then here goes the bolster." [Laughter.l Now, sir , the acquisition of territory. And the 'negro question are our bolsters, and we have been sulking fur some years with these bolslcis bet weer' ; and ;whelloui d isngrec ment begins to threaten the integrity of our great Union, the voice of the Old Dominion ishiard shouting in unmistakable •earnest , ness over these bolsters of contentipn,"Ged bless the 'Union 1" Sir, I must,lll3 a true man, respond to the noble sentiment of Vir ginia. I say, away with these bolsters of contention, and let us settle these contempt ible causes of quarrel in some way honorable and satisfactory to both. ,• Now, sir, What are we quarreling about in this matter? What are we talking about? , As I understand it, the Republican party are apprehensive that slavery is going into the Territories nortlfof 3G° to`. Or rather, they know that it cannot go there; and a great number of them think that it will not go . south of that line. Then the entire difficulty is whether we can draw this line, It is not for the benefit of anybody, as I unde . rstand it; for no one is going to derive any benefit from it. Ido not believe that it will either cause slavery, to go in or keep it out. I do nut believe it would have the effect of putting one-slave-the-more south - of - that - line - or-one slave the, less. 'But one thing I do know; I know that the line of 36° 30`, is consecrated, ay, canonized, in the heaits of the people of the free States ; and although some I{epub• 'leans may main( up and. say that the:people would never consent to.restoring that fine, I do know that„,the Republican party spruni ihto existence on the abrygation of it, I know the fact, that we havd gone before the pdople of Pennsylvania, over and over and over again, and said that - the Democratic party had repealed the old Missouri exonpro. mise lino, and that we were determined slavery should never go' north of it. 1 - do Nut ham.° it will ever go north of it. We have made our word good. I believe that eVeryifootof territory north of 30° 30' is con secrated to freedom, although the line is ab• rogoted. Therefore, to myymlginent, it does not-make a particle of difference, so far as the, real question is, concerned, whether you restore the line or leave it alone. For any OVill part, I shall vote for the propositions reported by the committee of thirty-three, because I think they effect a substantial re• storsttion of the Missouri Compromisi. Sir, it is cowardly for the Republican party and the great tree North to refuse this small boon to our brethren of the South. Fair play, is my. motto; and I would scorn to take advan tage of the paucity of their numbers, by Io• &lathe bar. Now, it is true there are some dozen slaves in New Mexico. Ido not see how we can get them out. Ido not see how we can have any control in the matter.. I do know that the legislation of 1850 settled that question, and ixnd the :dap/sof that 'territory, or left it to the people of the Territory, „which amounts to the same thing. When I was a Democrat, I felt bound to stand by the legit• lation of 1850. 1 stood by it then, and I stand by it now. It made a settlement of the controversy ; and I understand that the propositions ol' the committee of thirty three do nothing' more than,carry that legislation into effect. =I ing of the objects and purposes of the Repub lican party. I ask bins whether ho under. stands that one of their objects is ever tor interfere with slavery in the District of Co. lumbik, or in the docklards, arsenals, and navyyards,or with the inter State slave trade. Mr. JUNION. So Ihr as my knoWledge goes, in canvassing, not only my own dis trict, but others, and so far as I have heard politici discussed.in the free States, I do nut bel . 6is there ever was an election of any kin in which thequestion of slavery in the Die rict of Columbia entered as an element in any shape .or form. The idea that the people of the great free States should under take to make a specific issue on the abolition of slavery in the District of Columbia—a little place less than ten miles squareohat you could hardly have made a decent shoot big match out of when I was a boy in our county —and should make a quarrel with • respect to it, is supremely ridiculous. Ido not believe that any , Mau elected to Congress in the free States over discussed that sebject at all. They do not' think 'about it. The people de not care 'about it, rind do not want to have anything: to do with it. But they have always bad in , their mind the great' tittestion - whether they would secure the ter rltory north of 33° 30' for wh i m they call freedom. That is to say, that the freemen of the north do net want to work along side of slayes: ,, That is all. • . INV hen! you talk about lhe hostility, of tyre people of the free States to slavery, you are greatly. in !error. GO into these distrietti; where the people are supposed to be so in tensely hoitile•to the runt itution, and you iv!II 'find that , they talk very little about it, and.