Gaittt4,
ill
THE oTIDIq.pTOR-TACK CASE
Court of Quarter Sessions—.Hou. F. Carrol
Brewster..A.ssoclato Justice.
To-day we resutne the publication of the
testimony educed by the COmmonwealth
• in the trial of the. Mesars.Tack Brothers for
• • - eotuqdracy, now .going on in Philadelphia.
. •
• ' The proceedings published to-day will be
_ found very interesting, and will amply
pay the reader's pipeful perusal • :
9 ' [coirristran.] -
' Q. Now after the diasolution of that es
, • • tablishment, and yoti-got out of the oil re
' finery business, did yod keep en buying
and selling. oil--taking a "shot at
they; call ,it ? Were you in„any way con
- A. From the time I left the Keystone
• - Refinery, about the middle of July or Sum
. Met of 1865, X did not have anything,to do
with oil contracts or oil men except . tonome
• ' on here to collect $lO,OOO from you in wind
..
• ing 'lip the Keystone refixtery—regaiding,
relined oiluntil March, 1867.
Q. Had you anything to do with any ,
oil
men, °roil matters, until March, When'',
A. I - had nothing to do with oil men or
•' oil matters—in refined' Oil, except to settle
up this business of the Keystrine, until
; March 19th, 1867. Then Mr. •Finn' ey and
• •-mysel" bought; and :Tack- Bros. ;'sold , us
. •. r.,2,500 barrels of refined oil deliverable An
•gu.st, '67, September, '67, and July, '67.
Q. That was in Mlrch ? _ •
A. This is dated on March 19th, - 1867, and'
calls for the amount specified in the con
. tract. That - is the first transaction I had in
refined oil • '
time , - •
Q. At that m you.were "long" in oil ?
A, ..On Marchlitth,liir.Finny and I were
the purcluisete of 2,500 barrels of oil.
Q. lieu Were "long" - in oil?
- • •
Q. Upon- that contract you made money ?
I have never got anything.
•rt. You declined to take it ?
A. Nothli was ever offered me. You
(Mr: Cassi dy) told me if I went to Mr.
Tack's office I would get it. •
•
Q. Did you go? • • .
A.• No, f or- ' I knew if I did I would 'net
•I,f, it:• •
•
Q; You did not go?
Q. It*was after this difficulty? •
• •
Q. This operation had matured alter . this?
• only arr ived hereon the 28th of.ruly,
• and these might have matured on the 10th,
but the August and September did.
- •:. Q. These matured after the - difficulty had
, • ••, arisen regarding.the "short" sales, and you
• ' didn't go to Tack's in consequence of that?
a A. I never called there tq...get it. ,
• -•-• Q. Was not this oil tendered?
•.• ,A. This particular oil? •
• : Qt This lot in accordance with this con
' tract? • •
A... Mr. Tack cacao to my hotel and ten
-. dered me a bundle.
.[Mr: Swartaweider.] I ask your Honor to
instruct.this witness to answer yes or no.
Judge Brewster thought the question an
involved one, and might not be answered in
that way.
peoplef4- Was any oil offered to you by these
[Mr. Mann objects.]
• .Q. Willyon answer whether any oil wait
; , • offered' .in? •
• A. Whether any oil was offered?
Q. Yes.
A. There was no oil offered to me—there
. was no oil brought to my hotel.
' •. Q. fMr. Mann.l.ltWas not convenient to
• have it there? - • .
A. No,' sir. •
Q. Did yod visit the oil region during
1867?. What was known as the oil region—
Warren, 'Venting° and Crawford counties—
' I think you said?
Mr. Mann objects. Cannot see the ob.
„ • . Mr. Cassidy: I - , want toshow that just
- before this transaction with the Tacks that
t•-this man, was famillar..wltb the business,
• visited the oil, regions to satisfy himself.
• He knew more about it than these people..
• • Judge _Brewster ruled that the question
- and answer did not: contradict anything in
chief :_: The Charge Is that the -defendants
represented that they had certain reliable
information thstthe demand would be in
\. • excess of Ahn glipPly, and yelying upon
• tbat'"tbis gentlemsn entered into the
agreement; That Is the marrow of
the investigation: I will allow
this witness to be cross-examined in order
to show that he had many transactions and
was acquainted with the condition of the
' 1 market generally, bat the .details I shall
• exclude. The question put is overruled.
, , Q. I think understood L you to say that
while you were in the oil Yetinery you had
nothing to do with oil men or oil matters—
that was to March, 1867?
A. What I said was, that after I left the
Keystone Refinery I had nothing to do.
- • - . Q, 1 / 4 lam rig ht • then; -except to settle np?
What was you were speculating with
Ininiel Miller—crude or refined?
4 A. I don't think it was during that time.
• .Q. Yet while.you were in the refinery?
.
A. :I said after I left the refinery.
' Q. That was then a speculation in oil
transactions? - , • •
A. If you call it so.
Q. On your - own account? - •
A. On my own account. I was thinking
a great deal of refined oil, for I had a great
interest in the Keystone.
Q. Were you speculating in oil contracts?
A. I was speculating with Mr. Miller in
oil contracts. -
Q. Also with Captain Bigler? •
'
was my partner. „ .
Q. Then you were together?
A. He was a partner in the Keystone Re
finery just the same as I was, but the con
tracts with Mr. Miller were mine
• 'f
Q. Were von not also speculating in oil
contracts with Captain Bigler? • • .
A. No; except as being a specia lpaitner
in the concern: • fie had no interest in ally
contract except as partner in the Keystone
Refinery, and one contract which was made
for the Keystone Refinery and which the
- other - partners would not take, he and; l
'took the responsibility, •.• , • • •
Q. When did you`say yon sawAugtistas
H. Tack in Philadelphia,--during the latter
end of July?
A. , The , best - of. my recollection, the first
time I saw hirii was Monday morning. I
think it was July 29, at his office. 'The next
day ?saw hid: at his office.'
Q. And where else ?'
A. That day ? •
Q: Yin. • .
A. Not that I recollect.
Q. Didn't you see him in < idr.. Warden's
•,' - •R . I eftlee?' • t A. • ; ••• •• • •
His place Is adjoining. • • ••
Q. Never mind. Didn't you:see him in
. Warden's office.? •-• • •••
• ) A illavt , Mr.llttek first , In 14,
after I left his office and went into Mr.
r Icardettts office he °mein.' think. •
41 -- " Arid earyt him ? " „ <
A. Yes, sir. , •
Q Talk with him there ?
A. He spoke to me.
• ,g o ld y.onssduto himas though you had
act nhiln?. •
A. No, sir. .
• , •Q. w as Mr. Warden present? .• 2,
A. Mr. W. J. Warden and Mr. Pinney
weretipresent.4- • •'- , • • •.
Q. Did you setiltim Wearing,klf.ing'n .
• : :office?
Q. A- That
;, day ? -
.1
- -7 2 . ;'• ;clica. Al 'o t °I ' °s
th thilt ii y f e i x r t E r-g- - , •:' .. -, . , ~•, , , •
!,A.,,• What date, ir(iytid'it "tie?
.. ‘
0.: 'The 30th • •
, • : !. - ,4..so•,ionidlection - kkt seeing hhiii , ftiat , #St
. iniatglitjt arsine. ~ , ~ ,lc 1
', ~ . . lyp,rin tberP, iotinelf t' ''''
/
-, --1 ..:,•!,,,,, ~.t.•01 : 1 14 4 31111? et ''irh ether I wan or
,• •,•,. , -.•ri,...... '-• - 1,. - ,11111 1 1 1 .,...A 1 V: r _ on' Walnut street
IflO ns
c a t i ,„%4VP.Pgrq....i .. " . .:1
,I Myr csna r 1441! -1r -- • I NIC MTre & when You , ' •
7, Etrivt CO brut eller rlLlLno. , r—.7 •i;-, ;dr.,:
••,,r-,_:l re , ..11. .7.1:I:r11 - 1.1 I f'::l.,' a - 11. , .! ,-;-- ; 1.,;H.0.7.. al
EMU
ME
•~ ~.~;c
• •
;72. -
that letter at the office of Augustus Tack?
A. It • as either the 29th or 30th of July ;
- . :••••• 4. iv — cl
eSen r ifeMiThlieri s .7-"-.-
Q. eiet.ter:waSp:no, book?
A. That was my recolleciion of
Q. You read the whole of it?
A. I did eventually t I believe, ;
Q. Yon, were not - stopped from reading '
it all through. I understand that after, you
made the remark,," If you are an honest
man you will show it," Le allowed you to
read it?-
.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were not stopped from yielding ?
A. No, sir. • ,
Q. Who was there besides you and ii.fr .
Finney?
A. I can t state )3pecific4ly Who. was in
the) room. I know Mr.. Tack was there and
Mr. Finney; but _whether Mm;. Miller, had'
gone Out, or whether his friend had gone
out; I dou't know. t, ';They are' a veryindeui.
•
trlous , plO ther e-going in' and out of
each o 4. orls o ffi te .
Q. Do you remember Chase being
there?" -
,
A. The office that Mr. Tack had at that
time—
Q. I don't care about knowing the size.
A. .•I want to show yon how it is arranged.
This portion which leads to the end of the
building-is lengthwise like this, and sever
al desks in it , and Mr. Chase is generally
,there; And this portion on. Walnut street Is
an oblong size, and in that is Mr. Tack's
office—his own table; and Mr. Clime would
go in and out, but whether he was there or
pot at time, I can't say.
Q. Some of the language used on both
sides was excited?'
A. I; was very much excited after I read
that letter. "
Q. No season why any person might not
hear it? --
A. If they were in the oblong room they,
.could have heard it. •
•
Q. Don't you think they heard it?
.A. lf was speaking as loud as I do now. ---
Q. Was it not ?
A. :I don't know. • -
Q. Was not your voice pitched very high?
Ay I was excited and my hinguagei was
very , pointed, and I meant what I said. I
don't know whether Mr. Chase was there ,
after the explanation I have given.
Q. When, before the 29th of July; were
you at Augustus Tack's office?
A. To the best of my recollection I had
not been in his place between the 7th and
Bth of Juno until the 29th of July.
Q. - Were you there on the 7th or Bth of
June? .
A. .I was there.
Q. That was in the morning?
_ The first time I had gone to see him
he had made an appointment to see me at
your office—that was the day before we saw
you at your office. The' morning I went
down to talk about these "short' transac
tions was the morning after we saw you;
we went direct to your office. ,
Q. Yon are in the habit of mentionhag
my office and collecting $10,000. • I want to
ask you: Did you call St Mr. Augustus
Tack's office, and not Mr. Cassidy's office?
A. The same day.
Q. What day was it?
' A. The 7th or Bth of June. '
Q. Was it on either?
A. One or the other. It was about the
time. I can't state days, months and hours
running back for years.
Q. Where was it that you saw Augustus
Tack on the morning, of the'7th of 'Tune, in
Wahmt street?
A. I have already statedthat.
Q. I thank you to state it again?
A. The first time I sins Augustus Tuck
I came to Philadelphia in June, and was at
his office. ' •
Q. Where?. •
A. On. Walnut street. ,
Q. Where?
A. Between Front and Second streets, ,on
the left hand side as you go down.
Q. On the morning of the 7th of June?.
A. No sir; I said It was either on the
morning or afternoon of the 7th of June
about that date.
July Q. ?
“Abont, " do you mean the 4th of
'A. No, air; it may have been the 7th or
Bth, and then the, next morning - I went to
his office.
Q. When did you see him first to talk
with him upon the subject of buying oil?
A. It was the day.after I had seen him,
and walked down and went into his office.
It wiui the 7th or Bth', of June?.
, .
Q. Who acoOmPanied you to the office
when this conversation occurred?
A. To the best.:„mv recollection, when
; we left the office,:South'Sixth street, (Mr.
Ca.tsidl,) we; were alone:until we reached
Dock and Walnut. There I” met Mr. Ma
rino, and stopped, and.had a conversation;
whether Mr. Marino walked back with us
I dora remember, but Mr. Tack add I went
together.
Q. Who was in the office with you when
the conversation took place?
A. There was no person when the conver
sation took place,"except Mr. Tack's clerk
—how nmy.others d.on't know.
Q. Who was in the office with you when
the conversation took place?
A. There wean° person when the conver
sation took place, except Air. Tack's clerk
—how many others I don't know.
. Q. Where did the conversation occur, in
the office?
A. In the middlo of the office, -about the
desk, and then we changed from that dealt
to another. - '
•Q. Was the conversation conducted - with
great secresy?
- A. No great secrecy.
• Q. Was there any -secrecy?
A. It was ' a perfectly private converu
tion, bittwhether•his clerk overheard it
not I don't, 'know.' • - • •
-Q. Wei it condncted in a whisper, or,
more quietly than usual? •
4. I dOn't thittk there ams any whisper
-111&. HoW long were yottthere?
A. Not Very long.
Q. About how lona?
A. I don't recolleet. -
Q.. Can't you give us ail idea?
.4-•• Noj Piro
•Q. Dick you go there for. any other, pur-
A. Nene. except' 'Oat I have already
ated 80 often. •
• Q. You went-there with reference to col
lecting some money. After that did you
have any conversation upon businesa ex
cept the briiiness you have testified about?
A. wept "thine - that Morninifor- the ex
bresil larikomi • • 1 ,„,.•
• Q.', riswer the queened/ '
A. °:I don't remember what was•said.
Q. State only what yon do remember;
was the office. in which you had. this con
versation the same office in which yon had
the conversation of the 29th of. July?
A. No, sir. , They had - , changed their
ofce..:'Theotlicol found , them in in June
was '
Q. Which was the largest, the one of the
7th of June or the2oth of July? • ,
That is a matter of opinion. I didn't'
measure it..: • • • • • -
Q. You didn ' t take a fe'et-11.11e and go
over it?
A. No, I had thOught you. would
have asked= me I would- •
Q.,,/,don't doubt It
A. :I don't know Whether regarding this
Office' Mr. Tack had the whole of it,-and ;
paid the rent for all of 14 and,oscupied all,
of it, I don't think he did. if thatwas
the offitx, in June was smaller that theßno
in July. , L . 2'f,Pl
Q. When wash that you met Mr. Fronk,
Tack in Pittsburgh on th e e subject 4:1( these,
transactions?,;
,A. : I met hhitsiivaritititnes.
Q. When was the - first?
A.i met Frank Tack veryoften. ri
Q„,, I want to know, the 4te. of the MI-
Ye rsekieh about the... . ectmatter of these
tsAlk with him?
g-X1R1104010141T" 1/441;411!trilli
4400 . 4 E00 , m, , 1 1t4 , 90glzi
- Ly • ' .• • ; :
7 pod. w astmoonr b e r l i t i i gm e ; - oreherea :d ing d w e g n o i o 'a,d h v bee titi lxnl a ce 4 l7o7 ol. oy u c il y .t l hit i ::
• r!..79..;.kvu: e peg i ng ; ••• • . ,
'll4 the ( Ace. I went iita " on j ,i4 : '
Iftfiellean is c a n e d •'
IMP!,
•,
INE
PITTSBURGH GAZETTE: THURSDAY, APRIL 23. 1868
OnAe morn ing utthe stb of July?
A: About thlitztinie. - I can't tell about
Q. I want to Icrtow, what "about"- means
in your eitinuation? . • •
A. It"wasa about the sth or 6th. It was
afteri saw Mr. Guthrie.
Q. That involves another qUeation; when
you saw Mr: 'Guthrie?
=Whim On the morning of the sth
of
Yottused J the Word s‘about.nt t Do you
mean that to apply tnthe '4th or ah_or. 6th
of July? .
A.- I don't mean it to apity 4th.
To the best of my knowledg 'lt was on. the
sth. From him I went, 'tilted to:Frank
'Tack: ;
" Q. What did yon say to!) 'Flank Tack?
A. I, told Win Ihad met "Mr. Guthrie, and
he 'had told, me that oil had suddenly
jumiasl to thirty cents a gallon, and• there
was .a lgreat 'excitement; Alarge number of
calls had been made. I asked him the
cause of it,' and he told me I had better go
.and see Frank Tack. That wag' about the
conversation I had with Mr. Guthrie. •
Q. Who was present at that conversation?
AI With Mr. Guthrie?
,o• with Mr. Frank 'rack?
A. I have ao recollection:of anybody but
Frank Tack. There may,have been some.
body, but I don't recollect. -
Q. When'did you sue' Frank Tuck?
A.' When did /sue? •
Q. Yes. ,
A. In what respect do von mean?
Q. In any respect. I •
• A, I sued Frank Tack in Pitsbnrgh in' a
case of damages.
Q. Did you ever sue him criminally?
Mr. Mann objects. The records will show.
Objection overruled. -
Q.:What other suits' except the suits 4:ir
datnages did'you bring against him ?
A. I brought no other. •
.
Q. In Pittsburgh or anywhere else?
. A. I don't know.
Q. Did you authorize anybody?
.IhadnOt the power to authoriz,e.
Q. I thought not. . . Did you sae Mr.
Schalk? ' -
A. I sued him for damages the same
way in Pittsburgh and Theodore and
Augustus • Tack and. John Grierson and
others for damages with. Mr. Marshall as
counsel.
Q. Does Mr. Grierson live there. '
A. No, sir.'
Q. Does Mr. Schalk?
A; Not now. He has a house there.
Q. Did yi bring any other suit against
lir. Schalk or Mr. Orierson, except these
equity slits?
A. I have no suits pending against them
except the original bill in the city of Phila
delphia, and the suit for damages in the
city of Pittsburgh.
Q. Then von did not include them in the
complaint 'before Alderman Beitler?
Mr, Mann. The proceedings wilt show.
Objection sustained.
Q. What time was it you offered to Sell
10,000 barrrels?
A. What date?
Q. Yes.
A. I will have to refer to the book, to see
the exact date.
Q, Which book?
A. I have a whole book full of these
matters.
Q. What month Was it in ?
A. I will have to refer to the book, and I
will give it to you with pleasure then.
Q. I thought these matters were fresh in
your memory? •
A. These 10,1500 barrels?
Q. Yes.
A. I recollect the transaction, but you
ask the date.
Q. Is this one of the little details you do
not remember?
A. About the time, but the fact is not
one of the little details. I remember the
fact vewell.
Q.
What book is it that will refresh your
memory? ,
..A. It is an' immense book, containing a
vast amount of faCts and things in regard
to this transaction, which has been going
on for many months.
[Yellow book handed witness.]
It was about Juno 21, 1867.'
Q. You directed Mr. Theodore Tack' to
offer that immense lot? •
A. I did.
Q. 10,000 barrels?
A. 10,000 barrels, provided the buyer
would put up 010,000, being a dollar a bar
rel margin, and I, the seller, would put up
an equal amount.
.Q. 'That was the largest offer you had
ever made or heard of?
A. Tt was the largest I had ever made.
Q. Or ever heard of?
A. It was a large amount.
Q. The !most you ever heard of?
A. I have heard so much.
Q. Did ybu - ever hear of anybody,beating
you on offers.
•A. At one sale—if you let me see that
book I will tell you.
Q But yon know?
A., I can't recollect all I heard. •
Bo you remember, is my question; le
me ask a question to refresh your Jew'
'action. Was It not top big 'for that mar
ket ? •
A. It was not intended for that market.
'lt was intanted for Philadelphia: it w:
telegraphed here.
Q. Yon telegniphed?
. A. I wrote the dispatch.
Q. It was too big for Philadelphia ?
A. They reported it was too large for .
Philadelphia, and would try to operate it
in New York, and that they would "cable"
it to. Europe.
Q. Didn't Mr. Theodore Tack remonstrate
with you about the folly of your course—it
was buyer's option all the year around?
A: When we first, wrote the telegram he
approved of it billy, and when this decision
came hack that it was too big, he said he
was glad the offer was refused - , and so was I
and Mr. Finney.
Q. He didn't remonastrate with you?
A. Not at that time.
Q. And you have not said that he did?
A. , Notat ,tbat time.
Q. At thitt tittle, you were talking with
him about'it, didn't be. remonstmte,• and
didn't•yott tell .hint he was an old fogy , and
would never get along,?
.A. Not that daj , . •
•Q. •While it was pending?
A. While it was.pending be did not re.
Q.• Before it :was deelined—before anY
, • :
DM
,
A. There were a half dozen answers and
e approved of it at first.
Q. Didn't' you Write a telegram
,becanse
heodore refused? ,
. .
. .
• ~A.:.1 wrote it beeaUie I wanted. to refer
particularly to 'the $10,00.,. Then Theodore
struck my, name out ~ a nd Volnnteered to
Q. Now Mr. Guthrie knew all this?
A. I can't tell what he kiie*, .
- ..
Q. Buyer's option gave the party'. the
right to call ,upon . ,you at any tinte d.uririg
the Year, ••• - , :i-; - .”•,-;,- • - .., •
•, A. Yes. ..•• • . . . : ... ..''-. 4 ,
•.
Q. Didn't:Theodore remonstrate and sa y
It was giving:6o.mm% power In one man is
handarto make,such a thing? .
.• ;.. . ~
.',A. -Not. atthat time. . .. • '
... ; „ . •, '
. ,:.
Q. Did,he at ; ny time? , - ' '
A. Subsequently, .
Q.... Didn' t, you .re ly to that, that: vitt,
didn't expeet.ta.aelt it,' but it would have
the effect of t‘sieltenlitg7 the market? ' -
! - A,. ; ,l,telct, 'him I;would, put up '
.slo,poo,
Ad,T,:wiiiolo, : .okutik•ooy.. else .to AQ: the
. . .
- •
would sag e siti'iti"liat; no sumo& it
wiAdd-huye the 01‘. ? t,9r#10 . keiippic!,4*,i,
Ait - T? ---, .-.: 1 ,:.
timeito;4 l oi* . tiVaii..
• s ) ;s..plikyogoizaiii• t
, ~`4 C ,lfite4i,l V ,il,..;•alkfiii,Bo,iiitich that.T.calal
raaiOliati' ' .r.;* , - ,
Q;DlttiOrt SitY Sri?! ',..';', ; .....; .......: -.. .. ;
L'jj'A.,l:4an'it4matecit:l. ... ,
11'114- 1)1 4 1- k)*u 110 y po to.xr. iiutheto ? • ' - -
I ,A.;,*.t(*it, I #ave any:Soonaotiou... : ...
:* .P;I: . X.40 , 1'4414) 4 ,1 : understand 0 iva#A
;4e.fr
.v.. ..: , • . e 7 PiNkigi 10 r P. 114 WPg.475-
is rp. . ta'i 3 iilliii. , *-•e4 i tilp'''''OA
, , 4 1 R0.44P; f4 . ..l'•&#,LldgMr.Tß.,. 4 .0. :. 1
p.:41%.... , e.e i re - ,trrltt... 'T 1- - irrn.rim .7GU fOp
''• ' ''.- ' :e.i 1 , i,'''',Z, fr(P''''. ".-
=
r
been 26,000 inbtoad:tit l l 3 ,ooobittrebt.' Didn't
Theodore Tat* - Witte:Daly offer from
_
•'. - ~ -": .- ' M 7 l - CO . ;•••ir, . .-.-r- Pv. .3 . 7:
the. refusal. had -- e.xrigolii-igave Akre°
'A. Do you - want all about that 11..) . , - f. - 0,i,-: '
.Q, I -want an answer to my questtpu,
'A. I can't tell 'without looking at;- the
book. "June 21, 1867. Tack Blathers,
Walnut street,Philadelphia. O'Connor will
sell`lo,ooo. standard *hits in one lot at 26,
provida•l one dollar „each side is put up. ,Of
ferl
good until Bat Saturday evening., ' 'rack
Brothers A: Co."
June 22. (Dispitc ieatt.) . ,
June 22 ,-- 'aa : -- "
June k 2. (Dispa if read. )
June 26. .a. , a'
ni t ,
A. Reading' dies I would say I with
dew the .offer mini .
Q. I want to kno if , that last offer was
t sent, and you d d not know of it until
ifterwards? ,
A. Not-that I, kno v of. He says "O'Con
or withdrew offs " -
Q. He was your raker? ~ •
A. Yes. '
Q. You' didn't se d that diaPatch?
A. No sir ; and if 6 had sent it that "we"
,yithdraw, it woul haYe,been mine; but he
Q.
54 4 0 0 :Fci o i n nq s .r.' a ' : i--
oar knowledge? ,
A. No.
Q. Anil you don'
? '
romeilber having said
A.:Not that Ire' .11ect of now.
Q. 'I undoistood ou to' say—l may be
mistaken about this, and therefore I •ask
you before you
• entered into this contract,
for the 16,000 barrels, yon. 'had 'many inter
views with Theodore Tack, and discussed
the Whole subject?
A. You misunderstand me. ' •
Q. What was it you said about discussing
it for wholci bodrat • . f
' I have stated'. that upon my return
'from here in the early part of June, in ac
cordance with Augustus Tack's special re
quest, I saw Theodore and then we dis
cussed it. ' '
.
Q. Did you enter into ' ny contracts upon
what Augustus Tack said to you?
'A. I did not,,for I was to see Theodore,
Q. When you got, to Pittsburgh did you
call upon Theodore or did Theodore call
upon you?
•
A. I can't recollect whieh.
Q. now many days after your return?
A. It must have been a very short time.
Q. Did you introduce the conversation?
A. I don't remember, but I told him all
that Angustus told me. .
° My question is' whether you intro
duced the subject?
A. I can't remember whether he com
menced it.
Q. Who talked first about. this subject?
A. Very likely I commenced the con
versation, telling him I had beAn to Phila
delphia.
Q. Did you discUss•the general subject of
selling oil at that interview?
A. We did.
Q. At considerable length?
A. At considerable length.
Q. Did 'you act upon the result of that
interview?
A. He did for me. • '
Q. Was a.contract made?
A. He told me a contract was madli with
chalk and told me the follolking day.
Q. You gave hini instructions to make
A: I did.
Q. Did he submit the contract to you?
A. The succeeding day he submitted it
tome. After leaving the office he told me
he had gone and made a contract with
Emil Schalk, and had signed my name so
as to close so' that the succeeding day I
could.take up this contract and give my
own.
Q. He changed the contracts; as you
were the real seller, he signed your name?
A. Yes, air.
Q. Then. you accepted them?
A. I accepted them in my own individnal
name.
Q. Then the other contracts were submit
ted to you either in terms or the proposi
tion?
A. Yes.
Q. Were_not the prices for the remaining
16,000 barrels submitted to you from time
to time for your consideration as they were
made?
A. He would tell me what he was going
'to do. and then he would go and act, and
then after he got the thing in shape Frank
would bring them to me.
Din't he submit the contracts, every
one?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. Did'nt he submit the prices before
they were closed ?
A. • With regard to all those contracts ?
?,tr. Cassidy: You know what I mean;
did he not submit to you the prices or the
offers, I don't care what you call it?
A. He talked to me very fully about it.
Q. -Which one?
A. Each of them.
Q. And you gave him instructions upon
that to close?
A. Ile would toll me.
Q. You have said he told you, and talked
to you. I - want you to tell the jury whether
he didn't cloSe these upon your orders ?
A. He had my orders to sell 16,000 barrels,
and he went to - work to' do it. The next
thing he told me he had'sold to Wightman
tt; Anderson,.and advised me such and such
onother man. would buy, and I approved,
and then he would bring the contracts to
me. That 18 the way he did.
Q. All of them P
A. Yes, sir.
Recess. -
AFTERNOON StcssioN.
Jas a O'CoNNon ' being recalled, was
cross-examined by Mr. Cassidy for the
defendants.
Q. You stated the Tacks gave their own
contracts for the 6,060 barrejs of oil sold to
A. I stated that Mr. Tackled signed my
name to it, and I subsequently accepted the
contracts,
Q. Then the - Contract's were really in your
name and not in their name?
A. They were in my name on, my side.
When they handed me in Mr. Schalk's
contracts, that side of the contract was in
his name; and thOy transferred Mr. Schalk
over to me. 1
Q. Did not the ppapeis.showa contract be
tween you and Schalk?
A. The side' of the- contract which I ac-,
cepted shqw asbetween Schalk and myself
direct; theliet of papers on the other sl'de
shoW first, that Mr. Schalk bought and Mr.
Tack sold, and Mr: Tack then transferred
his contracts to'James O'Connor.
".Q. Then when that was done the contract
stood between James O'Connor and Schalk
upon the papers?, • •- -
A, Yes,,slr; as far as my side is concerned;
Q. Then the other side is the 'duplicate
A. Notdr; 'they are not duplicates.
DidQ. yoU not ask that these contracts,
should be in the - name of the Tacks' and
, state that'yOtt - did not desire to be known
as a seller? ' •
A. No,
Q You sir ..
e not said that toany, body,'Or '
in any _one's pTeoi lse g
A. zio; sir,, • " '
Q. YOu never said that or anything like,
it ti,lgr.,Ciuthrie, or in his preSeneel
A. No, sir. Tim thing is absurd. •
Q. DidY o l4lli..o'Connor, over say to
anybddy - it t he time you were Sellin 'short " ln'J or g
thereabonts, that you
„knew allabOtiVtha oil business, and that in
.the oPerikticM*YOu' were then in you were
`Sure oilNouldsoiciwer' or anything like
that?` ti
A;' , Yes• air ; I told that to quite a number
of liertionti.''2ls - angorniation was, received,
from ' '
you begin tomake.' that
statement! " •:'
A. 'Well ,1111 I autiMilzed I+44'
• Tacit to make , these '-'short sales" I wall
full,' In resttedlo.tfist fact .
4tl ouititO Wore yo
.04 u author .
. 11 1 0 atia'thiug?
muit 'a 'great: . °Mks,
,taiotv , IrdtAnot.recolleet the ftt„
„",
,Turcnc Y -IT •
OE
,
!
you made your operations with the Tacks,
that you knew all about oil, and that you
A. Imair bavesaid, as I was the buyer
NVith- t lkir.-11 . nney,of considerable of oil, and
',the wasgoing down, and I was going to
Vase money.,. I may.have mid in May, and
m
'fil early in :Time, that that. was the fact;
that I, was going to lose money, . and it
might •
go lower. I do not recolleCt I did
say so at that time; but I did say, on the
12th ofJune, a great deal about it.
Q. My
.question is whether before all
these operations you said ,what I have
stated?. .
A. .I may , ave said it; but Ido not reCol
lect it. It was a special matter. •
Q. Have yon any recollection at all . of
talking about it, eseecially to Mr. Guthrie?
A. To Mr. Guthrie, before these contracts
were entered into? Mr. Guthrie is a gentle-.
man with whom I have had very little con
versatiOn. I do not recollect of any such
conversation with Mr. Guthrie. •
Q. Or any one else? -
A. Well, Mr. Cassidy. I know all Pitts
burgh pretty near, and talk a great deal,
and talk upon a thousand subjects, and I
cannot therefore tell what I said at apar
ticular date or on any particular subject.
Mr. Guthrie I do not recollect of seeing.
Q. Or anybody else in regard to the mat
ter? • • -
the , mithdrew with
A. I do not recollect of any special per
son.
Q. Or any general person? ,
A. Nor any general parson.
Q. Did not Mr. Theodore Tack show you,
almost daily, letters and telegrams giving
information as to the condition of the mar-
A. From tho time that Mr. Theodore
Tack commenced , these sal& he did; up to
the nine he left for Philadelphia, he showed
Me letters from his house and telegrams to
his house, I may say daily, , ahnost hourly,
up to the time.he left for Philadelphia.
Q. Was he riot in the habit of sending
them to you ?
A. He would a ther send. them to my
house, or Mr. Fr nk Tack would bring
them, or he would bring them hiniself.
Q- 'They were se t? I don't care by whom
you got them.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you no, in the habit of keeping
Yourself advised Da to the condition of the
oil market, both after and before making
your contracts with the Tacks, independ
ently of them entirely, .I mean from other
sources?
A. From the time thatthis operation com
menced I was in such omistant intercourse
with Mr. Theodore Tack lend his brother,
that I made very little, if any, inquiry out
side of them.
Q. How was it 'before and up to tha
time?
A. Prior to that time I had not paid very
much attention to it, wag never had any
conversations with the oil men.
Q. Did• you not say to Mr. Guthrie that
you had been all over the oil region, and
that yon kept yourself Existed by getting
reliable information from persons who had
charge, of wells and oil property in the oil
region and from other sonrces ? Did you
not state that substantially to Mr. Guthrie ?
A. I stated that substantially to Mr. Tack
and Mr. Guthrie, his clerk, may have over
head it. I did not state it to Mr. Guthrie;
he is a gentleman I had very little conver
sation with. I
Q. That was with reference to crude oil ?
A. Yes, sir. '
A. Well, 'I hud no interest to look site;
refined oil, except about the 2,500 barrel
purchase; and the crude oil business occu
pied my attention at that time.
Q. Did you not_keep yourself "posted?"
A. I kept myself "posted" pretty fully
as to the condition of crude, more espec
ially.
Q. Did not that almost naturally lead you
to know something about refined?
A. Prior to that time?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, it would lead me to know
something about the market to that ex
tent. It is a very "big thing," the petro-
leum business.
Q. And it is a very natural thing for one
knowing so much about crude, to know
something about refined?
A. I say so—more or less.
Q. Do you remember saying to anybody
at or about the time you went into these
operations, that you were going "to make
a spoon or spoil a horn," (I think it is?)
A. I haire no recollection. of making use
of such aphrase, but I May have said it.
Q. You have heard it?
A. I have heard it very often before.
(Ityldr. Ca.ssldy,) I never heard it.
A. Make a "spoon or spoil a horn"—oh,
yes—that is a western phrase.
Q. And in connection with that, that yon
"would take these oil men for fs50,000?"
A. No sir; I vever said anything of the
kind, that I recollect of.
Q. You say you did say the other?
A. I say I may or may not. It is ?a
very
common expression.
(Papers produced, upon which witness
identifies his signature.)
Q. As I understood you, you had no oil
at this time to deliver to anybody?
A. I had no refined oil, .except the 2,500
barrels which was to be delivered to me by
Mr. Tack.
Q. I mean prior to that?
A. I had no oil, except the oil contracts
for 2500 barrels. I had no oil except some
crude oil. had no refined oil.
Q. You said you simply wanted to have
differences settled, and did not want to
have anything to do with the delivery of
any oil?
A. did not want to be annoyed with oil.
Q.;And you went into the operation ex
pecting to make , money, regaroiless of the
operations in - oil, and having no oil on
hand, and intending to deliver none?
A. Do you ask me that question?
Q. I do. Whether you did not go , into
this to make money?
A. I did gointo it to make money. And
Mr. Tack was either to deliver the oil or
settle the difference, and if the contract
price or market price varied, why the dif
ference, less his commissions, were to be
paid by me or to be, recetved by me.
Q. But you remember stating to him you
did not want. o be • bothered with any oil?
A. .I told him I would not be bothered
with it. It is Very annoying •to have
about--1-
44. You could not take it up to your room?
A - . No, sir; I could not take it to my ,
hotel. • '
Q. I think you sold you preferred to have
gilt edged paper? . .
A. I did not say that, but I will say it; I
do prefer clean gilt-edged paper to oil.
It is better to have in the house?
A. It is handier about the house. ,
Q, You were to pay these gentlemen' a
commission? •,
. .
YeS,.sir• ofime and one-half per cent.
Q. That, u p on ' those transactions, would
have - amounted to about g 3,000 ?; .
A"v-Aboilt';t
'l'hat youlavo not paid?
A.' That I'have not paid.
'And for that, there I A a suit pending?
•• A. ate; ' they have not sued, me pending ;
' (WitnOse•Adde) It. may be that they
brought a suit-4 do liot know•what about,
that:
Q. You sued Wightmatt & Andersonl,
Objected to. - Objectlotisustained.
. . Q. 'Yon settled with Wightman &Ander
son upon legal advice? Mi. Merino, your
agent, settled:' with, i
them, and lhen 400 k
fronithemibeirmite;whch upon maturity
was paid, and they got ' the money. from
you? You did
,pay that t
A. 'YO3,, 44.:jttst In the war stated it,
, . Q.: .1 O.:"Xitigittrich you dt : '
A . 3', .C: Kirkpatrick , Mr. erino paid
, kip It your money? ' . ''''
....: - 4t; At , vina-,noi . „ moneYt Kirkpatrick dt
. A.Ttins r paid myself,' I think. - ', ' , :.,••=
Q. Who'Ohia of lhat-PartY did you Mt 'I:
A. ,The 9nly ones that I paid ' tliperson•
Were Joseph Kirkpidr!okp, a nd nirk P, E d'''..
i d , 7 , 7 4 ,7„ 4 ..' 4 . b' llilein ,, 1 1 1
41';13"
4 11 .14 ; 41 7an S81741 ;e i ll eS in i ".
t° I: lt t;lieal l " itt illS -.11'.::" IC.
j
i r
1 r ".... : '.. rf n, ~,...
'9111; :.,....? 1414 i , Clif ,
- 3, : . ~,-. °li t: , arenClllll ,
; t leading: ' , "
f,, - fur: qt, •••,' '
01 tit:l . t- '7-•
:,;,,..;
from an affidavit filed by Mr: Augustus
Merino in this county.
%%Matti 'ArgUed, 'and objection over-
(B- the Court.) Please answer the
counsel, stating What it was you were look
ing, at in the bitak. •
A. I was looking at a printed . page in a
printed book, which contains a specific
statement of names, and the exact amount
paid to each party.
•Q. A printed copy of whatt •
A. A printed copy of Augustus Merino's
affidavit on that subject.
Q. That shows you settled with whom?
• AI That shows the whole statement' of
how much money was paid out.
Q. To whom. •
A. Well, there were paid by August Me
:Tina-.to Brewer, Burke. it Co., • 0,100;
there was paid to J. C. Kirkpatrick do
Co., 84,000; there was paid out to Mr. Kirk,
Superintendent of the National Refining
Company,- one amount of 11,700 and odd
dollars; and one amount of 8.5,300, making
$7,1100 and odd dollars.
Q. (Paper - produced and shown to wit
ness.) Is that your handwriting?
A. (Reading.) "For L. C. Cassidy, Esq."
Yes, sir: that is my handwriting.
Q. Is that a copy 'of - the affidavit you
made? • • •
(Objected to.) .•
• District Attorney Mann. You are simply
asked whetheryon gave or sent that paper
to Mr. Cassidy? • -.
'A. I did, • - .• •
Mr. Cassidy: I want io knOw whether
that is a copy of the injunction affidavit
you made?
[Objected to.]
[The w;tness is directed by the Court to
answer the question, and is informed he
Can afterwards make any explanation of
his answer.]
A. I have glanced over this, and I believe
it to be substantially "the same as the in
junction affidavit I made, and which was
riled in the Common Pleas Court, and the
original of. which was handed to me this
morning by Mr. O'Brien. So far as I
know, that is precisely the same, subject
to the typographical errors. The affidavit
thati really did make Mr. O'Brien showed
me this morning. It is a very long one.
There may be some errors here—none that
I know of.
Q. Yon named the persons with whom
you settled. With whom did you settle
first?
.
• A. I could not give you the exact chrono
logical order of howl settled With them. I
have given you their iianies several times.
Q. Don't you remember with whom you
settled find ' )
A. No, sir. -
Q. How long was it after you sued them
that you settled?
A. Well, all• along, from probably Sep
tember; it was September with some, and
October, I •presume with others. It was
along in the fall of 1867.
Q. Did you procure of from those
with whom you settled or anybody of you?
A. Either my counsel or myself prScured
all the affidavits •and testimony we could
possibly get. Among othersove got them
from Brewer, Burke & Ca:* then I I.4lieve
of Charles Burke and Mr. Russell, W.
Burke, Mr. Wightmart, and others.
Q. With whom you settled?
A. With whom I 'settled or my agent
settled at different times.
Q. Was it part of the settlement?
A. It was not part of the settlement.
Q. No such understanding?
A. There was no such understanding.
Q. Did you hand to Wightman an affida
vit prepared by you before you settled with
him, and ask him to swear to it?
A. I had frequent conversations with Mr.
Wightman before this thing.
Q. Did you hand to Mr.. Wightman a
•prepared affidavit before you settled with
him, and ask him to swear to it ?
A. I do not know whether I prepared the
affidavit, or that Mr. Collins did.
Mr. Cassidy. It is, more likely Mr. Cas
sidy did.
A. Well, Mr. Collins did prepare an affi
davit for Mr. Wightman, after conversa
tions I had with Mr. Wightman and that
my counsel had with him.
Q. Did you hand that to him, and ask
him to swear to it? -
A. Very likely I did, or some of my
counsel for me.
Q. Did he decline to swear to it, because
it was not - true?
A. No, sir
•
Q. Or some such words used ?
A. No, sir. - •
Q. Was the affidavit given to him before
yougliVe him a note ?
[Objected to.]
Q. I understood you to say you paid
about 820,0Q0 of these contracts you named.
Now, can you give us about the tinie when
your counsel (District Attorney Mann) ad
vised you that these contracts were illegal,
and that you were not bound to pay any
money on them?
A. Mr. Mann, from the time that ho took
charge of my equity case up to this mo
ment, has always said that.
Q. What time first ?
A. Well, sir,when he first took charge
of the equity case was in the early part of
August, 1867. Fro& that day to this day
he has alWays said that.
Q. When did he say it first ?
A. Well, he said it the very first day he
over spoke about it.
Q. When was that? • •
A. It was'early in August, 1867, and he
has talked about it repeatedly from that
time since, and says so now.
Q. He has kept talking about it ?
A. Whenever it was ,necesSary to speak
on that point, he has always said it was
against his wish that I had ever paid a dol
lar—'-against his orders.
[A written paper is shown to witness,
about which he answers as follows
It is my handwriting, but not my signa
ture; it is not my signature in full, being
4ij
Q. You put those initials there?
A. I wrote the whole of that dispatch.
Q. Do you know John R. Barber ? -
A. I do.
Q. Did you ever say to John K. Barber
that it would pay him better to be on your
side than on that of the Tacks?
A. Not that I recollect of.
so? Q. Do you mean' to say you did not say
A. That I do not remember having ever
said such a thing to him.
Q. You know Mr. Barber very well?
have known Mr. Barber for a con
slaerable time; I knew him before he
he beCame a petroleum broker.
Q. Q. There can- be no- mistake about the
A. No, air ; there cane be no mistake
bout the man; I know him.
Q. Do yon know Mr. Albert Dilworth ?
A. Yes, sir; I know F. Albert Dilworth.
Q. Did you ever say to him that yon had
a great deal more money than the Tacks,
and that you would put , them under you,
or that:you would push them to the wall, or
any thing like that?
[Objected to. - Not sustained.]
q. Did yon say that.?
• A: I said to Pir. Dilworth—.
9° A. Di livry n ou say no t t hri let t ? me say what I did
say?
Mr. Cassidy. No, sir; I do not ask you
what you said, but did .you my that?
A. I said that, or its equivalent, substari:
tinily. •
The Court [to witness]. Now having an
swered the question - you have the right to
explain, if , you vrbiji.
A:: Mr. Dilworth told me Theodore Tack
had been in his ofilee'disonsaing this great
.hav:bbit, and had - told them What he was
going to do, iutd that lie was going to put
me in thb pentitentiaryrand I got ve
. t he much excited ; .of bonne.. And then the
matter ran along,thus until they said I was
not as rich a.rMan as; people reported; that
was not:worth over $60,000. I told him
that whatimaa , wortla • VMS of no imiant.
, to hilt 3, but that I had sufficient of money
sUdjuatibe on ray • aide to punish them.
- That larthe ocinversation.. •
Q. And that'is your explanation?
A. That. is my explanation.
abol
oon - “44_ ;33400_ fie.)
- 7 - -:
\
c - ._
13