»
CONGRESS.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Friday, March 18.
Debate on Mr. Living(l»n'* resolution continued
Mr. Livinfjlon'c fpcech concluded.
2d. The second argument that had been used to
deprive the legislature of any right of interference,
in cases of this kind, was drawn from the uniform
prafticeof the government ever since its formation.
The gentleman from Sonth Carolina (Mr. Sqiith)
who made this objection, had cited one instance ot
this practice in the resolution directing treaties to
be published with the laws, and had adverted to the
appropriations for the Indian treaties (under the
general liead of the military establishment) as fa-
Vo . r '. n ? h" principle. As to the refolntion, Mr.
Livingfton laid there was no doabt that treaties,
■when properly fanftioned, ought to b« observed,
and therefore the refolvticm was proper, that they
ought to be promulgated On the fubjeft of ap
propriation, it had been well observed by a gentle
man from Virginia,-(Mr. Giles) that the house ex
ercised as much diferetion in granting the supply,
by way of addition to the military appropriations as
if it had Bfcen given fpeeially for the purposes of
the treaty. But the truth is, said Mr. Livingfton,
"that an accurate examination into the communica
tions of the Executive, in analogous cases, and the
proceedings of this house, will form a strong, I
think an irrefiftable argument in favor of the resolu
tion. It would appear, he said, fi*m the view he
was about to take, that from the firft establishment
of the Constitution until the negociation »f this
treaty was begun, the executive had been in habits
of free communication with the Legislature as to
our external relations : that their authority, in ques
tions of commerce, navigation, boundary and inter
course, with the Indian tribes, had been expressly
recognized even when difficulties on these queftiont
were to be adjusted by treaty,
The firft cafe related to a provlflon for an Indian
treaty, and was suggested by the President in a
tneffage of the 7th of August 1789, in which he
lays, If it should be the " judgment of Congress
that it would be most expedient to termibatc all
differences in the Southern diftrift, and to lay the
foundation for future confidence by an amicable
treaty with the Indian tribes in that quarter, I
think proper to suggest the confidevation of the ex
pediency of instituting a temporary commission foi
that purpose, to consist of three persons, wbofe au
thority (hould expire with the occasion."
In coufequence of this meflage, Congress took
into consideration the expediency of the measure
recommended to them, and palled the aft of the
36th of Aug. in the fame year appropriating
20,000 dollars for defraying the expence of nego
tiating and treating with the Indian tribes, and au
thorifingtbe appointment of commrffioners.
The President having appointed commissioners
to treat under the direction of the aft,'gave them
inllruftionS whi.h were communicated to the house
and from which this is an extract. " You will
please to observe, that the whole sum that can be
constitutionally expended is 20,00 a dollars, and
that the fame cannot be extended.
Nothing having been effected by the commis
sioners, tht President mentioned the business again
in his address to both Houses on the ift of Janu
ary 1792.
In the month of March in the fame year, the
house of representatives adopted the following re
faction, recommended by a feleft committee ;
" That provision ought to be made by law for
holdings treaty to establish peace between the U
sited States and the Wabaih, Miami, and other
nations of Indians, North Weft of the river Ohio ;
also for regulating trade and iptercour fe with the
Indian tribes* and the mode of extinguishing their
claims to lands within the limits of the United
States." On the 29th March following, a billpaf
fed the house of representatives the title of which
was amended in Senate and pasTed, appropriating
an,ooo dollars for purpoies expressed in the pre
ceding resolution.
. Mr. Livingfton said, this cafe was important, as
St was the firft communication lelative to a treaty
that was made under the Constitution, and attentive
examination of its different parts would (hew that
very different ideas were then entertained from those
yrhich were now enforced. He would firft observe,
that the diferetion of the house of representatives,
as to commerce with foreign nations, flood precisely
on the fame footing, with that whieh they ought
to exercise in regulating intercourse with the Indian
tribes j that if one could be done without their
concurrence by treaty, the other might also. And
that therefore, when the President recognized their
right to deliberate in one cafe he virtually did it
in the other. Let us then attend to the language
of the meflage (said Mr. Livingfton) and we shall
find that right of- deliberation most expressly refer
red to. "If it should be the judgment of Con
gress that it would be moll expedient," what can
be more explicit thau this language, and again,
44 1 think proper to suggest the consideration of the
expediency of instituting a temporary commission."
Here the fame diferetion is not only applied to,
but the President at that time supposing that no
iraplieated power could deprive Congrcfs of the
right to regulate trade and intercourse with the In
dian tribes, submitted to their con/ideration, the
expediency of appointing commiflioners, they paflT
ed the necessary laws, and he inftru&ed the commif
ioners, nbt in the language, that is now held, that
they mijfht ftipulste for the payment «f any sum,
and that Gongrcfs would be obliged to find the
means; but he tells them the " only fitm that can
be coifftitutionally expended is 20,000 doltars, and
that the fame cannot extended why (if the doc
trine is true, that we are under an obligation to
. comply with'the terms of every treaty, madety the
President and Senate) why did he fay no further
sum could ronftitutionally be expended ? If that
doftrioe were indeed true, his language would have
been—use what-money may be necessary, contract
for the payment of it, in your treaty, and Congress
are constitutionally obliged to carry your ftipula
tiorrfirmr effect.
"" ; The resolution above quoted, Mr. L. said, was
Important, a»it proved that Congiefs then supposed
that they ought not only to provide ky law for hcld
inga treaty vitji the Indians, but that they also
had the power, and.ought to exereife it, of regu
lating trade ahd intercom fe with the fame people,
and of preferring the mode of cxtrnguilhinj; their
claims to lands within the United States; but all
this, said he, it is now difcovercd may be done with
out their aid, by treaty.
The second instance of the exercise of this dread
ed diferetion, was in the law of the 3d of March,
179-1, appropriating 20,000 dollars to enable the
President to effect a negociation of the treaty with
Morocco. This originated in the Senate, and is a
decided proof, that neither the President nor Se
nate had, at that period, any idea of the moral
obligation that is now difcovered,.or they would,
w/thnut the formality of a l?w, have at once stipu
lated with the new Emperor for the payment of
the peceffary sum, which rauft have.£#fi*4>rovided
by the house.
In a third cafe, the President had thought pro
per to take the sense of that house in a business that
of all others demanded secrecy, and under circum
fiances that would have prevented his making the
application, if he had conceived himfelf at liberty
to aft without their concurrence : he adverted to
the meflage of 30th December, 1790, where the
President fays, " I lay before you a report of the
Secretary of State, on the fubjeft of the citizens of
the United States in captivity at" Algiers, that you
may provide in their behalf what loyou shall sum
expedient.
No aft having been pasTed by Congress, in con
sequence of this mefTage', the President did not
conceive himfelf authorized to bind the United
States by treaty, for tiie necessary ransom of their
citizens ; and therefore nothing was concluded until
after a subsequent meflage and previous appropria
tion in the year 1793, when another meflage was
sent relative to the negotiations with Morocco and
Algiers, then pending, " while ic is proper (he fays)
that our citizens (hould know that Jubjefts which
so much |concern their interests and feelings, have
duly engaged the aatention of their legislature and
executive; it would ft ill be improper , that some
part of this communication should be nudeTinown"
—part of this meflage, therefore, was confidential
ly communicated, which fltew6, (Mr, L. said) on
some oecafions it was not deemed iinpruJent to trull
this house with the secrets of the cabinet. And in
consequence ef mefTage, a law was pasTed ap
propriating 100,000 dollars for the purchase of a
peace with the Algerines. It was oftcnfibly ap
propriated to the above gentral purpole, but the
intent was well undsrfiood.
The next tranfaftion that he (hould quote. Mr.
L. said, as favorable to his doctrine, was the mes
sage of the Prefiderit of the Jth Dec. k793» a "d
the measure to which it gave rife. The President
fays, " As the present situation of the several na
tions of Europe and especially those wfrh which
the United States have important relations, can
not but render the date of things between theij
and us matter of interefling inquiry to the legisla
ture, and may indeed give rifo to deliberations to
which they alone aie competent, I have thought it
my duty to communicate to them certain correspon
dences which have taken place."
This meflage, Mr. L. „said, accompanied the
papers relative to France, to Great Britain and to
Spain : and a queflion would immediately occur,
whatwerethe deliberations to whieh the Prefideflt
then thought the legislature alone was competent,
and which he therefore thought it bis duty to com
municate. All our disputes with the natiohs re
ferred to in the meffagi., were such as on the new
conflruftionof the treaty power, he could have ad
justed by com pa ft without any reference to the
house as reprefeatativei; but it is plain, by the exi
press words of the meflage, that he did not believe
that conftruftion. It was no answer, Mr. Living.
(lon said, to the argument drawn fronj this t ran fac
tion, to fay, that the President only submitted the
queftien of war or peace to the legislature by this
meflage. 1. Because the message related to the
three, principal natiom in Europe, ancL he never
could have imagined that Congress would have de-
iberated on going to war with them all.
2. This was evidently not his intention, because
a* soon as measures were propsfed in that house,
which he supposed would lead to i rupture with
one of those nations, all these measures were palsied
by the appointment of an envoy and the commence
ment of negociation. - y - 1
It vrai clear, then, that the Prcfident thought
the matters communicated by hisraeffage, which re
lated to commerce and boundary, were conftitu- ,
tionally veiled in the difaretion of Congress. This
idea was corroborated by the words of a meflage
relative to the negeciation with Spain. " And
therefore, by am 1 with the advice f.l consent of
the Senate, 1 appointed eommiffioiters plenipoteh-;
tiary for negbciating and «oncluding a treaty with I
that country, on the several fubjefts of boundary,
navigation and commerce, and gave tham the ?n
---ftrudlions now commonicated". Why, fiid Mr.
Livingfton, communicate the inftrudtiom to rain
ifters ? Beraufe they related to commerce, ro navi
gation, to boundary, on alt of which fubjefts the
President ,must have thought the legiflaturc had a
right of decision. He mull have thought so at
that period, but, unfortunately, all precedent »f
free communication ended here. Mr. Jay's nego
ciation began ; and a different conllruftion was as.
fumed. »■■■ ■ • .1
From thiY view qf the acts of government, he
ttufted that a far,different impreflion would be made
than that the doctrine he coatended a new
one, originating in opposition to the English trei.
ty, anii a define to diforganfze the government.
That, on the contrary, it had been declared by the
President, acquiesced in by the Senate, and a&ed
npon by the house of Reprefentativej.
3- ° ne test of eonftruftion remained for
examination. It had been relied on by a member
from S. C. (Mr. Smith) he would therefore notice
it. It was the present opinion of the citizens of
the United SAtet, Mexprefled by their town meet
ings ard by their legjlkturea. He did not suppose
the fenfc of the people on this fubjeft eould be per
fe&ly colle&ed, it could only be known by their
applications to this hbufe ; and in thofean appeal
was made to that reiy discretion which it Was con
tended did «ot cxift, The petitions infarct of th«
treaty, and tkofe which were presented sgain& >t,
both acknowledged the right of the hotfe to mter
fere The legislatures spoke. the fame language .
some had approved ef the conducl of those who
made the treaty ; but all, he believed, were silent
as to the power of this house. As to the town
meetings, he did not exped to hear them quoted
as authority by the gentleman wh~o tiad introduced
them. His fellow-citizens of' New York, Mr. Li
vingfton said, would be surprized, when they heard
the name of the gentleman who had ulliered them
en the floor tof that house fines they were there,
however,- let bs hear the language of their
to the President. They need net be ashamed of it,
and he would answer for its contradicting the pofi
tiori of the gentleman who quoted it. CHe then
read several extrads from the New York resolves,
to (hew that they thoHght the rights of the house
were infringed by the treaty].
Thus, said Mr. Livingfton, to whatever sourCe
of argument we refer, we find the constitutional
powers of this house fully eflablifhed ; whether we
recur to the words of the eonflitu'ion, where the
power is expressly given, and is to be loft only by
implication, whether we have recourse to the opin
ions of the majorities who adopted the conftitulftoo,
to the uniform pra£Hce of the|government under it,
to the opinions of our conllituents as exprefled in
their petitions, or to the analogous proceedings in
a government conftrudted in this particul*, like our
own. Yet, afteF all this, we are told, that if we
question thefupremacy of the treaty-making p»w
er, we commit treason agai'nft the constituted au
thorities, and were in rebellion againfl government.
These were serious charges, and made in improper
language. He had not been so long in public life
as the gentleman who made them ; but he would
boldly pronounce it unparliamentary and improper.
Besides, this language is wrong in another view.- It
may frighten men of weak, nerves from a worthy
puifuit ; for my owa part, when I heard the mem
ber from Vermont, compare the authority of the
President and Senate to the majsfty of Heaven, and
the proclamation to the v»ice of thunder ; when
he appealed to his fctvices for his country, and
(hewed the wounds received in her defence ; when
he completed bis pathetic addrifs by a charge of
treason and rebellion, 1 was, for a moment, atlon
ifhed at my own temerity ; his eloquence so over
poweied me, that
" Methought the Clouds did speak and tell me of it,
14 The winds did sing it to rae, and the thunder,
" That deep and dreadful organ-pipe,pronounc'd
" The chargcof trcafin
I was however relieved from this trepidation,(con
tinued Mr. Livingfton) by a moments reflexion,
which convinced me that all the dreadful confequen
ccß arose from the gentleman's taking that for grant
ed which remained to be proved. He had only af
ftimed that the mcafure was uneonftitutional, and
then the reft followed of eourfe. From my foul,
(said Mr. Livingfton) 1 honor the veteran who has
fought to establish the liberties of his country; I
look with reverence on his wound ; I feel humbled
in his presence, and regret that a tender age did not
permit me to (hare his glorious deeds. I ean for
give every thing that Juch a man can fay, when he
imagines the liberty for which he has fought is a
bout to be destroyed; but I cannot extend my
charity to men,, who, without the fame merits,
coolly re-echo the charge. Aaother obfervatiofy
had escaped from the fame member in the heat of
debate, which another from South-Carolina (Mr.
Smith,) to whom he before alluded, had repeat
ed with high encomiums. It wasthisthat encroach
ments were more to be apprehended from the po
pular, than from any other branch of government.
This doflrine, Mr. Livingfton considered as high
ly pernicious to liberty; and as highly unfounded
in fa&, at it was improper. Where, he aflced,
will gentleman find fads to juftify their opinions.
If it were true, there would now be none but
popular governments in ejciftence ; they would
have encroached on the kingly power, until alt
power was centered in them alone. The fad re
verse, however was the fail. All Europe had once
been free ; all Europe with the exception of Fiance
and Switzerland, were now in chains. Where,
then, would historical fafls be found to juftify the
charge ? ] n the obsequious Parliament of Britain ?
In the houseless assembly of Naples, Or the degra
ded Cortes of Spain ? In the hundred years sleep
that had involved tfie dates of Portugal ? would
gentlemen look for them in the tyranny of Ruflia
and Germany ? Inthe military despotism of Prussia,
or the eccUfiaftical one of Rome ? why, then, if
unsupported either by theory orfaft, are the peo
ple told, be on yotir guarc against the popular part
of your conftitinion ? Shut your eyes to the con
duct of the Executive and Senate, they can never
encroach, but beware of the ambition of yoar Re
presentatives !
He would notice one other objection that had
been raised, and then Conclude. It was said, if the
President supposed thrfe papers necessary, he would
have sent them j and that we might offend him
by this request. Mr. Livingfton said, this was not
the firft time that neafures were endeavored to be
carried, by appealing to the charafler of the Pre
sident. He sincerely admired and refpefted the
chara&er of that great man 4 he was jealous of his
reputation, and, ai an American, wai interested
in his glory.no consideration (hould ever tempt him
to one leaf of his well earned laurels; bat,
while he hacithe honor of a feat in that house, he
would refill every attempt to cover improper mea
sures by the splendor of any man's reputation.
He had before remarked the lingular tendency
of argument in thisqueftion towards the mystery of
theology ; it was not only predestination and free a
gency, we are now told that we mutt full faith
in the President, and that he and the Senate can
do no wrong. What, Sir, (said Mr. Livingfton)
as, faith, banished by modern infidelity from re
ligion, taken refuge in politics ? has the dodlrineof
human infallibility been transferred from the ritual
into our conftitutioD ?
Mr. Livingfton concluded begging the pardon of
the committee for the unavoidable length of hii
inveltigation ; be felt how utterly incapable he bad
en to the talk, but he was consoled byrefkftinjr
hL J r UCn " and ability by w '» cl) the «*®*ion
Had been fupportcd hy #t h«r».
Saturday, May 7. - —
Meffis. Parker, Findley, Crabb, f„
and Claiborne presented petitions, in favour of t K e
Biitifh treaty.
Mr. Murray presented an addref«
Grand Juty of Kent county, Delawaie, to thefai
effe£t. .P' •
Mr. Clopton presented refolutionj refp?, > ,
the treaty, wiihing the house of 'Rtprtieiitus^c, st«5t«
use their own discretion in the bufmefs. 1
' The Speaker prefeßted refoltr-'ions and a prt'ticij
from Huntingdon county, in favour of the treaty
Some debate took place upon the'propriry o f lr '
celving the resolutions, on account of their brim"-
said to contain a censure on the proceedings of t'j r »
house : they were read, the fenfa of the house vv; S
taken, and they were reje&ed. The petition with
those presented above, were laid upon the table.
The bill for the relief of-Sylvanus Bourne, was
read a third time and pafTed.
A bill to regulate compensation to clerks, and
a bill to regtilate quarantine, were twice read and
referred to a committee of the whole.
Mr. S. Smith laid a resolution upon the tabic
putting all nations upon the fame footing, with
reipect to the felling of veflels and goods within
the pom of the United States, by recommending
it to be ena&ed that no natisn (hall be allowed in
future to fell their prizes within the United States.
A meflage was received from the Senate with
the bHI authoring the sale of I.iik's north wejV 0 f
the river Ohio, with several amendments tfcireto.
The amendments were read and referred to a feTeft
committee.
Mr. VV. Smith, from the committee of" ways and
means, reported two refoluiions", which were refer
red to a committee of the whole.
The house resolved itfelf into a committee of the
whole, Mr. W. Smith in the chair, upon the bill
for laying certain duties on carriages, and for re.
pealing a former a<£t for tfce fame piupofe, which
being gone through, the house took it up, and it
was ordered to be engrofled for a third reading.
Mr. Sitgreaves, from the committee to whntm
was referred the memorial of certain creditors of
the French Republic, residing is Plwladelphia, re
ported that they found the extent of the c'aims of
the memorialing fufficient, to entitle them to the
interference of Congress ; but. as the fcfiion
drawing to a close, the feleft committee wilhrd to
be discharged from further contideration of the me
morial, and that it might be referred to the secreta
ry of state, to report thereon, at the next fetEon of
Congress. The report was twice read anil agretx' u>.
The house resolved it felt into a committee offTc
whole, Mr. Wm. Smith in the chair, 6n"tfieW a i,.
thoriiing Ebenezer Zsnefoldqire 'Certain
north weft of the riv«r Ohio. After fonie deb'ate
thereon, in order to give lhr.e for uiakirtg foir.e en
quiries on the fubjefl, the committee rose, and had
leave to fit again.
Mr. Tracy, from the committee of claims, made
a report, which being gone through and agteed to,
the house adjourned.
The readers of the account ef ycfterJay's pro
ceedings on the Teneflee business, will notice tlftt
by the ordinance of Congress of July 1787, th«
south *eftern territory was to be laid oat ints Hates,
and each Jlate, containing 60,000 free inhabitants,
was entitled to admiQion into the Unien j the num
bers returned by the census taken by the authority
of the temporary government were 66,649 ree ,n *
habitants and 10,613 aves > n '^ e territory foutli
•f the Ohio. The Pretident of the United State*
did not give au opinion in his communication, that
the Sate of Teneflee ftiould be admitted into the
Union, as Bated in Friday's rtiinutts, but referred
to the ordinance above mentioned, and the act of
celHon for the rights of the territory.
J D t I
Friday, 6th inft, Mr. Gloimprefeuied t ipeti.
tions from the County of. Albany*. gE;<f®taining
10 57 fignersin faoor of the Biitifh TrfityJ
MRS. MARSHALL'S ,\JGUX.
New Theatre. -
On Monday Evenings May 9, will be presented celebrated
Tragedy, never performed hefe, called
Alexander the Great.
Or, THE RIVAL QUEENS.
Alexander, Mr. Moreton.
Hepheftion, Mr. Warrell,jun.
Lyiimachus, Mr. Marlhall.
Caffander, Mr. Green.
Poly,percnon, Mr. Darley, jun.
Philip, Mr. Morgan.
Clitos, Mr. Whitlock.
Thelfalut, Mr. WarrelL
Perdiccas, Mr. Beete.
Eumenes, Mr. Francis.
SUye, Mi. Mitchell*
Roxam, Mr». Shaw.
Syfigambii, Mrs. Rowfon.
Paralalia, Mifl vvillems.
Statira, Mrs, MarfhaU.
Undtdbyhu Gencrali, Captains, Be xrith banner styles, %■.
The Vocal Pans-Ir, ' '
Messrs. Marlhall, Darley jun. Warrell, T. Wariell, MitcKell,
Solomon—Mrs. Oldm'xon. Mil,
Miss Willemi, Mrs. Solomota, M Heryc.-, Mrs, \
Gillingham, Mr». Doctor, Mi{» MiltsourAe,
Mrs. De Maiqye.
To which will b* added a grand lerioui Pantomnße» never
performed here, £?lled
The Deserter of Naples.
Ai performed at the Theatre* Covent Garden, Drury Lane,
and the Royalty, upwards of 2oonight».
General, Sig. Doctor.
Ruffett, Mr. WarrelL
Henry, Mr Marlhall.
Skirmilti, Mr. Bates.
Simkin, Mr* Francis.
Jailor, Mr. Bliflett.
Officers, Messrs. Darley, jun. Warrell, jun. Mitchell, Beet*.
Margaret, Mrs. Rowfon.
Jenny, Miss Milbourne.
Louisa. Mrs. Marlhall-
Villagers, Messrs. Morgan, Solomon, T. Warrell —Miss wil
lemi, Mrt. Bates, Mrs. Harvey, Mrs. Solomon,! Mrs.
Lege, Mrs. Gillingham, Mrs Doflor, &c.
In aU 11. a Jolemn military frtcejjion to the execution oj Henry,
The Pantomime under the dire&ion of Mr. Fvancis.
Tickets to be had at the usual places, and of Mrs. Marlhafl
No. 23 north Ninth ftreel. ,
> This Day publijhed,
AND for sale by B. DAVIES, N»- 68, High
H. & P. IVCE, No. 50, to. and J.ORMROP,
No 41, Chefnut street, ur rL-A'sic
Mr. Burke's letter to the Duke oi
Bedford
M»r •»