CONGRESS.
HOUSE <?r REPRESENTATIVES
Thursday, November 27, 1794.
Debate on Mr. Dayton's motion to re-
Jiore the words " felf-created societies
and," -jjbich had been expunged /(i
the addrefsto the Prejidentin answer tc
his Speech.
Mr. RUTHERFORD continued
his to the motion—he re
peated the fubflance of his former re
marks on the condu6t of those who ap
peared so solicitous to throw an odium
on the democratic societies—he con
tended that too much importance was
given to these institutions j they were
harmlcfs of and if let alone
would have no more weight in the com
munity than their condudi should enti
tle them to. If they promulgated
truth, the people would hear them, and
follow their advice ; if not, they would
fink into contempt. But what is the
import of the motion ? It favors of jea
lousy, a mere suspicion—os what ? he
nothing on which to found any such
jtaloufy or suspicion ; the people are
iatisfied with their own government,
they will support it ; the people are
happy and 1-untSnred; why then raise
doubts and difficulties ? why Hart at
fliadows? why gi/e consequence to tri
fles ? " Trifles light as air, are to the jea
lous confirmations strong as proofs of
holy writ." Let us dismiss this unmanly
jealousy, and let us imitate the example
Cet us by the date of Massachusetts—
there was a man in that (late by the
name of Shays; he raised a bustle, and
made a noise ; but what did the govern
ment do ? Why they despised him—
and in a (hort lime he funk into infigni
ficance.
Mr. Baldwin said, he had from the
beginning entertained doubts relative to
the propriety of going into the business
before the house in the minute manner
proposed ; adverting to the usual pro
cess in conducing tranfaiSions of this
nature he observed, that the present ap
peared to be a deviation, if not an en
tire innovation 0.1 the usual mode. Du
ring the recess, the Prelident collected
and arranged the information which li£
deemed proper to lay before the house ;
it cannot therefore be expe&ed that the
house ihonld at once, at the threshold of
the feflion enter into a minute answer
to the communications of the Pr;fid?nt
containing facts and opinions," the result
of five or fix months experience and' xi
fleftion, before they have had time to
examine those opinions, and investigate
those fails—This never was the prac
tice of this house, arid cannot be ex
pected from them. Mr. Baldwin then
adverted to the allegations which liad
been adduced againll the democratic so
cieties ; he queftii.ned their authentici
ty. Excepting the ftatemfiit in the
pofleflion of the house, that of the Se
cretary of the Tiealnry, tie knew of no
document affording any evidence of the
fadts alledged, and that adigned a dif
ferent cause for the infifrreftion ; for it
appears by it, that discontents had pro
ceeded to a great heighth before the
formation of these iocieties.
It had beeD arterted that the house
had a right to enquire into the causes of
the im'arreQion ; let US proceed then as
an inquest ; let lis call for the evidence
and lift the business to the bottom ; at
present he infilled the house was not
piepared to judge and decide. If the
speech mud be echoed in every minute
part, let us appoint a committee to di
gell and report a date of fa&s, as in the
cafe of Gen. St. Clair.
In matters of notoriety, such as that
we were enjoying the bleflings of peace,
when in truth that was the cafe, or in
refpeift to any otfyer felfevident pofi
*ion that was in itfelf inconteftible, he
he had no objedlion to an echo of the
address to the house—But on an occa
lion like the present, when there was
such acontiaiiety of opinions, he could
not fee the propriety of it. He re
gretted the loss of time that the discus
sion bad occafioncd, and that it had not
been employed in the more essential bu-
Jjnefs of the fefTion.
As to democratic focietiee, there were
none, to his knowledge, in the date he
represented [Georgia]—but if there
were, he should not feel alarmed at the
citcumdance.
He doubted whether the Prcfident
meant to include the societies in gene
ral, under that denomination—he rather
supposed he had reference only to those
in the four western counties of Pennfyl
vanta. As a more general idea, Mr.
Baldwin said, he preferred the expref
lion combination] of men, &e. He was
fully of opinion that rather than spin
out the debate to any further length, it
would be much more eligible to leave
the fubjeft altogether, and take up the
other business of the nation. He was
sure that the President, for whom he
profeffed the highest refpe£t, could not
be pleafcd with this mode of conducing
that before them.
Mr. Madison—said he entirely agreed
with those gentleman who had observed
that the hodfe (hofild not Have advanced
into thi> difcufiion, if it could have
been avoided—but having proceeded
thui far it was indispensably necessary to
fini(h it.
Much delicacy had been thrown into
the discussion, in confequcnce of the
chief magiflrate ; —he always regretted
the circumstance, when this was the
cafe. . _
This he observed, was not the firfl
instance of difference in opinion between
the President and this lioufe—lt. ma/
be recollected that th« President diflent
ed both from the Senate and this Houie
on a particular law (he referred to that
apportioning the reprefentatives)—un
that occasion he thought the President
right—On the present question, sup
posing the President really to entertain
the opinion ascribed to him, it affords
no conclulive reason for the House to
facafice its own judgment.
Ii appeared to him, as it did to-rhe
gentleman from Georgia, that there was
an innovation in the mode of procedure
adopted, 011 this occasion—The house
are 011 different ground from that usual
ly taken—members seem to think that
in cases not cognizable by law, there
is room for the interposition of the
House—He conceived it to be a iound
principle that an a&ion innocent in the
eye of the law, could not be the object
of censure to a legislative body—When
the people have formed a constitution,
they retain those rights which they have
not expressly delegated—lt is a quelli
on whether what is thus retained can be
legislated upon—Opinions are not the
obje&s of legislation—You animadvert
on the abuse »f reserved rights—how
far will this go?—lt may extend to the
liberty of speech and of the press.-—
It is in vaih to fay that this indiferi
minate censure is no punilhment. If it
falls on clafles or individuals it will be a
Tevtre punishment. He wished it to be.
considered how extremely guarded the
coniiitution was in refpeft to cases not
within its limits—Murder or treason
cannot be noticed by the legiflatuie.
Is not this proposition, if voted, a vote
of attainder? To consider a principle,
we muj'try its nature, and fee how far
it wilt go ; in.the present Cafe he consi
dered the effefis of the principle con
tended for, would be pernicious. If
we advert to the nature of republican
government, we shall find that the cen
sorial power is in the people over the
government, and not in the government
over the people.
As he had confidence in the good
sense and patriotism of the people, He
did not anticipate any lading evil to re
fiilt from the publications of these focie
tics ; they will stand or fall by the pub
lic opinion ; no line can be drawn in
tills cafe. The law is the only rule of
right; what is confident with that .is
not punilhable ; what is not contrary to
that, is innocent, or at lead not cenfu
rableby the legislative body.
With refpeft to the body of the people,
( whether the outrages have proceeded from
weakness or wickedncfs) what has been
done, and will be done by the Legislature
will have a due effeift. —If the froceediugs
of the government Ihould not have an ef
fect, will this declaration produce it ?—
The people at large are pofiefled of pro
per sentiments on the fubjedt of the infur
reflion—the whole continent reprobates
the conduct of the insurgents, it is not
therefore necefiary to take the extra step
—The press he believed would not be able
to lhake the confidcnce of the people in
the government—Tn a republic, light will
prevail over darkness, truth over error—
he had undoubted confidence in this prin
ciple—-If it be admitted that the law can
not animadvert on a particular cafe, nei
ther can we do it—Governments are ad
ministered by men—the fame degree of
purity does not always exifl— Honesty of
motives may at present prevail—but this
affords no assurance that it will always be
the cafe—at a future per iod a Legislature
may exist of a very different complexion
from the present j in this view, we ought not
by any vote of ours to give support to
measures which now we do not hesitate to
reprobate. The gentleman from Geor
gia had anticipated him in several re
marks—no such inferrence can fairly be
drawn at that we abandon the President,
(hoUdwepafs over the whole buftnefs -
The vote palled this morning for railing a
force to compleat the good work of peace
ortjer and tranquility begun by the execu
tive, fpraks quite a different language from
that which has been used to induce an adop
tion Of the principle contended for.
Mr. Madison adverted to precedent's
none parellel to thef übjcfl before us existed
—The inqui ry into the failure of the expe
dition under St. Clair was not in point-
In that ca£e the house appointed a Commit
tee of enquiry into the conduct of an in
dividual in the public service—the demo
cratic societies are not —He knew of no
thing in the proceedings of the Legislature
which warrant* the houfii in faying tht't in
ftitutions, confeflecfly , not ilfcgal, vjcre
fubjedlt of legiflativc censure.
Debate to be Continued.
Monday, December.!.
The House, in committee of the
whole took into consideration a bill U>r
the relief of John R. Livingfton—af
ter some discussion the committee was
discharged from any fuither proceedings
on this bill —and on motion of Mr. B.
Bourn—it was referred to the com
mittee of claims.
Sundry petitions were read and re
ferred to the committee of claims.
On motion of Mr.' Parker, the house,
in committee of the whole took into
conflderation the report of a feleft com
mittee on the petition of Moles My e ' s j
after some conversation on the fuhject,
to give time for further information the
committee rose ard had leave to fit a
gain.
On motion of Mr. Moore, the fob
}e£t of a petitipn refpe£ling a more ex
tensive promulgation of the laws by
having them treflated into the German
language was taken into conflderation—
after a few remarks on the importance
of this business,' Mr. Moore moved,
that a committee be appoiuted to report
what measures may be proper to pro
mote a furthci promulgation of the
laws.
Mr. Baldwin urged the importance
of taking the molt efte&ual mealures 10
difieminate as exfinfively as poflible, a
competent knowledge of the laws and
proceedings of the Government, in or
der to enable the people to judge for
themselves, and to guard them against
the operation of the ground!eft fears
and jealousies which are excited by the
discontented/ factious, and ambitious—
more particularly at the present critis ;
and in order to guard against a repeti
tion of the evils already experienced
from this source. He saw no othet way
to prevent these mifchiefs but that of
surrounding as it were their whole pro
ceedings with a blaze of light.—He
recited a variety of misrepresentations
and falfehoods which had been circula
ted with the greatest indnitry iii the
less informed paits of the country. The
carriage a<ft had been represented as ex
tending to every defciiption of wheel
Carriages, even to (pinning' wheels—
I these people had been told, and they
religiously believed it, that an excise
had been laid on wheat and other aits
; clcs never contemplated in the law, and
that the 80000 men which had been or
dered to hold themselves in readiness,
were a draft to be lent to France for
which the United States were to re
' ceive a large subsidy—and many other
equally futile and ridiculous tales had
been circulated, too infignificant to men
tion in the House, but which had dif
trafted the people, and rendered them
unhappy ; from all which Mr. Baldwin
strongly inferred the necessity of some
thing further and more effectual being
done, (even if the expence should a
mount to 50,000 dollars per annum)
to scatter the means of information a
mong the people. To (hew them that
their Government was good, and that
its errors if «ny were f'ich as proceed
from the imperfection of human nature.
Mr. Moore's motion, with the peti
tion on which it was founded were re>
ferred to a frleft committee.
A report was read from the commit
tee to whom that part of the Preident's
speech was referred relative to trading
houses for the accommodation of the
Indian Tribes—this report coincides
with the lentimenc contained in the
speech, and proposes a resolve for a
law to pass appropriating ico,ooo dol
lars for the purpose.
Referred to the committee of the
whole house on ThurHay—interim to
be printed.
Mr. New, reported an enrolled bill
for granting the privilege of franking,
&c. to James White—this was signed
by the Speaker.
Mr. Preston presented a petition from
fuudry inhabitants, who reside on the
line between Virginia and the South
Western Territory—read and referred
to a feleft committee.
A petition was likewise presented by
Mr. Preston, praying for a translation
of the laws into the German language;
this was referred to the committee on
Mr. Moore's motion.
In committee of the whole, Mr.
Cobb in the chair, on the bill to regu
late the pay of the non-commiflionetl
officers and privates of the militia when
called into a&ual service of the United
States.
This bill proposes that the pay rtiall
commence from the time of enrolment.
A motion that it should be altered to
read «« from the time of their appearing
at the rendezvous of the Regiment or
Brigade," occafioncd some debate—the
motion was finally agreed to—the com
mittee then rose and reported progrelk,
and the House adjourned.
PHILADELPHIA,
DECEMBER l
From a Correffondent.
The debate on the felf-created Clubs be
ing finifhed, a paragraph at last peeps out
of a certain paper, which ha* for some
time kept a modest silence. The writer,
• probably a leading member of the club of
this city, endeavours tp rescue .t from re
proach, by attributing to the minority in
the House of Representatives on the ex
cise law, a fimihr conduct to that with
which the clubs have been chr.*fed. Wjth
out denying that the very inflammatory
fpceches of certain members on that occa
sion, which were printed and industrious
ly circulated throughout the Union, may
have been in a degree inftromental in ex
citing uneasiness in the Weftcrn Country ;
that circumftancc furnilhes no vindication
for the conduct of. the clubs in fomenting
that uneasiness after it bad -faffed. There
ia as obvious a diftinAion betwten an op
position to the law, whilf- it is pending,
and one afier the lu<w bad faffed, au there
is between a member ek&ed by the peor>le
to discuss legiflatiye matters and ldf-crc i-
Ed and unauthorized clubs. Tlrr afTertion
that " no,opinion has befn uttered by the
club which has not been by a mi
nority in the federal Hcufe of Rcprefenta
tives" is an unfounded charge, and a li
bel on that rcfpcctali'e minority, witness
th« resolves of the club of this city in May
last, setting forth " that tilt appointment
" of IV!r. Jay by the President, was a fa~
" crijice of the interests and pcace of the
" United States, that it was an abmdon
" ment of the IVcJtcrn Polls, putting at
" (lake the blood of our fellow citizens on
" the f rentiers, giving birth to a perpe
" tual military eftablilhment, an endless
" war, and all the opprrjfiont, resulting
" from excise and heavy taxation ; and
" that the above resolution .ought to be
" made public, and transmitted to a lithe
" Democratic Societies in the Union, as a
" f rotefl of freemen against the mofl un
" conjlitutional and dangerous measure in
" the annals of the United States." O
thers of a like complexion might be quot
ed, as-emanating from the fame soUrce &
will be if necefiary.
Last Friday evening the Governor of
this Commonwealth, arrived in town
from the western Codntry.
But yegerday the French., with a very
fupcrior iorce, made a iurioufi attack up
pon the Corp of Genera! Latour, which
was Rationed from Chartreuse of Liege a
l£ng the river Owrte, about Spremont and
Louvegnte, they having -econnoitred the
We Hear that In the month of Goober ' Lie E etli7he Tu ftran? ° ftf' °f
la ft tlie imposts In the port of Philadelphia tr ;!nf J,h ' 1 rn P i f A U ["
■wnousted to four hundred thousand dnl
fall Vav rl b f i . t adtlp 1 Wa | i m d ports , f i his ed » retreat towards Hcrve with" confidf!
a'aasftssr-* i a»*r.w *■* —-«*
e and the right wing to Fourcn
f St, Martin, after having evacuated Char
; treufe.
On the fame day, the tnemy attacked
also the corps of referw, betv/een 5 and
6oco me:., which was flaiioncd under
General Dajtpn, to cover Limhourg, and,
after a conflict oi three hours, they forced
this general to make his retreat towards
this place.
This day the Legislature of the Com
monwealth are to meet at the State House,
in this City.
We hear that DwigHt Foster and Wil
liam Lyman Efqrs. are fe-e'lctfled mefnbers
of the House of Representatives of the Uni
ted States, by the people of (heir respec
tive diftri&s in Mafiachufetts.
Robert Brooke Esq. is cleded* Gover
nor of Virginia in the room of Gen. Hen
ry Lee Commander of the patriotic army
—whose term of fervjces was expired.
The Treaty lately held by Timothy
Pickering Esq. with the Six Nations, we
learn by a Whites town paper is conclu
ded, and fatisfaGorily to all parties*
Foreign Intelligence.
Capt. Morgan of the brig Molly, arrived
here -on Saturday from London—Captain
Morgan left London the 4th, the Downs
the 6th, and the Lizard the 17th Oilober
and brings papers which contain the fol
lowing intelligence.
BARCELONA, Aug. 27
Tbe menus from Biscay and Navarre, is
•v(ry consolatory. The French after having
surprized the Spani/h nation, by their ta
king Fontarabia and St Sebaflian soon wit
ne/Jed the I yalty a>id valour of thote two
provinces, the inhabitants of which, ani
mated with the love oj their sovereign, all
rose to take up arms without d jlir.ilion, to
avenge his cattfe. They advanced immedi
ately, with the greatefl intrepidity, and
checked the farther prcgrefs of the French,
who doubtlfjs, apprehensive of being cut in
pieces, broke down the bridge of Tolofa, on
the road of Navarre, and consequently firm
tohave relinquished the dejignof penetrating
farther.
Fifty thousand mufquets have been sent
to Burgos, from Madrid, and the regular
troops and armed majfes in that dijlritt
have dispelled every fear of a visit from the
enemy.
At Madrid\ the Burgers are forming
I a garrison oj ia,oco and in Arragor.
I the inhabitants rife to defend the frontiers
from every incurjiav.
In Roujfillon the French evacuated St. Si
baflian delta Nuggo, to entrrnch themfelvcs
in the environs of Giunchcra.
A French colonel of Hujfars came over to
our army and brc't with him a great deal
offpecie. He gave some very interefling
information refpeßinr the French army,
arid dijclofed the names of many spies
in our own, who were instantly put under
arr £ft' .. .
The king* torders and the excellent prepa
rttioru novi making, inspire all fpaniardi
<witb thegreatejl confidence, and tlxy fear
taking from unj qnurttr.
AIX LA-CHA PELLE, Sept a».
It i> unfortunate but too true, that the
Aullriatu have experienced a defeat on
river Ourte. There it constantly parting
here, baggage coming from the country
of Limbourg. The whole of the leit
wing of the Aufiriau army hat been cut to
pieces.
General Latour arrived on the 18th a
7 in the evening, at Herve, and at ten the
camp from Chartreuse Convent at Liege
began moving, and the troops encamped
near Herve..
On the 19th this army eftabl'flied them
flves between Herve and Battice, but in
the night abandoned again their pofnicn,
and retreated. The victorious French
followed their enemies close to their heels.
On the 30th, and yesterday, we heard
a formidable cannonading, and a large fire
was seen from our high towers.
Maeftritht is completely inverted by the
French.-The Aufiriaiu are said to have
thrown seven battalions of troops into it.
VIENNA, Sept 11.
Our regiment of light horfc of Leveneht
marched on the 22d. ult. urorn Dubona in*
to the Polilh territories. A corps under
General Meirflieim has also advanced to
Pulway.
Skirmishes have taken place between
our troops and the Poles, in consequence of
the invaiiou of the former iiTto that coun
try. The Poles have fought every
where with great courage and enthnfral'tr..
According to a new ididl 110 Polifli lub
je«a is tolerated in Galicia, unless he en
liits in the militia. • ;
Our Court has commenced an imporant
correspondence with that of Russia, with
rcfpeA to measures to be adopted by either
in cafe of a rupiure between Turkey and
Russia.
The Britilh miniftersare fiill here—thty
are said to wait only for the ratification of
the treaties on the part of his Britar.nic
Majelty.
AIX LA-CHAPELLiT, Sept. 19,
The dayjbefore ycfterday theFreneh at
tacked the Austrian General Kray, in his
petition before Maeftrichr, and obliged
him, about n o'clock to fall back under
the cannon of the place.
But General Clairfayt having come to
his afliftance, with four battalions of in
fantry, and four fqnadrons of horse, the
enemy were driven back to their former
ground.
Camp near Granenbouig, Sept. 24.
The Duk<? of York has made a move
ment to the left, about two leagues higher
up the Meufe. His head-quarters are atr
Granenbourg.
Tuesday, Sept. 15.
The Duke of York has changed his
head-quarters from Granenbourg to Mook
a small village near his ramp. Th«
ground on which it is situated [3 elevated,
commanding an extensive view of the
country aroundjwith the river, Grave &c.
AMSTERDAM, Sept. 25.
Though the situation of these Pro
vinces is more critical than ever, the
enemy having rendered themselves mat
ters of the Meufe and made further pro
gress in our territory, we remain in the
most perfect ignorance of the operations
of the armies.
There has been, it is said, a French
commifiioner at the Hague, who had a
long conference with the Grand Pcnfi.
onary Vanden Spiegel.—Lor j Sr. He
lens refnfed to be present at this inter
view, alledging that he had no i nil ruc
tions from his court to that effed. The
tefult of this conference is for the pre
sent a fectet. It is also rjported that
the King of Pruflia bag detei;mined to
offer terms of pacification to the Frendi
Convention for Pruflia and Holland.
The report of the dajr is, that the
French weie preparing to past the ri«r
Waal near Brommel, fix leagues from
Utrecht.
MAYENCE, Sept. 21.
We receive this moment the certain
and important intelligence, that the at
tack of Field-Marlhal Moellcndorff Ihi
Kaisers-Lantern, has fully fueceeded.
Ihe Pruflians yesterday morning ren
dered themselves mailers of that place,
mad • 3000 prisoners, and took 6 piece*
of cannon.
By the Convention accounts this plan
was retaken by the French the fame (lay,
BRESLAW, Sept. 14.
Private letters from Poland aflure lit,
that the king of Prussia has entered in