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Rases McNichol's Son, Hotel Clerk and Telephone Girl Weld Chain of Evidence at Fifth Ward Murder Hearing
tmk Murder
mmmny i nnus
mm fWSTen
KiM't"ittrtcd by separate Mlt.
jCROSS-EXAMINATlON
fc,rrr. Connor Q. Thin letter, whlcli you
BKir"-!Zi r,t h mi- -xr..i,..... ,-....
Ii what hour In tho day did you wrlto
ur. A. i mauea inai ironi the postofllfcc.
to go there to buy special deliver'
, and I Judge that must have been
7 or S o'clock. At any rato. I don't
xv where I hosted it. and I hatnied it to
cleric
HPK,
ami
fo.
..'
' $
'6, A"
) ' Hi
Q, "What day Of the week wan It? Ton
"mnemberwl other days of tho xvtok. yva.it
t on Sunday A. No, It wasn't on Sunday.
Q. On Monday? A. I belle vo It was on
Monday.
Q. "Where verc you staying when you
wrote this letter? A. I was In thn hotel.
Q. In tho Hotel St Theresa? A. Tea.
Mr. Conner. ,
.CJ. You feent It by special delivery, I un
derstand? A. Yes.
, Q. Uayo yoii seen' that envelope since?
A. Np,. elr.
O. TXM vrtll' ftbr rtn AnA tA Hlimr vim ihn
..' jnVelopo when they showed you the letter,
,' he cnvelopo in.Tjhlch you posted the letter
i. which you say you sent from New Vorlc
l -t 7 -o'clock In the evening? A. No, sir, I
Wn haven't seen It.
Q. As far as you know, Mr. Maloney cot
it and has It? A. Yes.
Q. You nro quite sure It was around 7
') o'clock In the evening of tho day before this
telegram was sent? A. Yes, sir.
Q. AVhat Ultid of an cnvolopo did you
, use in sending It? A. T used a plain en
' vclope.
Q. Where did j'ou get the envelope?
.A. "Well, I guess 1 had It In my traveling
BRg.
i Q. As I understand you, on the night of
tho primary election, you went to your
homo and slept that night? A. Yes.
Q. "Whero was that? A. Sharon Hill not
my home, my sister's house.
Q. You cumo into Philadelphia the next
4ay2 A. Yes.
Q. What time "did you arrlvo in Phlla
dlnhln. tho next day? A. Well, the only
wav I can designate that Is, I went to the
n..l aftnllnn ifi. hiivlnip nnmft rtlmrH.
-, iiuiiwu ""i ....... - .-.:
i and I asked them what was tno noxt tram.
fhey told me fourteen minutes. I believe,
and I said, "All right, then," and I bought
the ticket
Q. You took that train? A. es.
Q. "What Btatlon did you leave? A. Hero
at Broad street.
Q. Whero did you arrlvo In New York
uptown, Thlrty-tlilrd street or did you go
downtown. A. I arrived downtown. What
Is downtown? i
Q. What station did you get In in New
Tork7
IJy Mr. Cordon Q. The ferries? A. Oh,
tho ferry I don't know I arrived at tho
station, that's all I know.
- Q. Don't you know whether you arrived
in a boat or In a train? A. No, I arrived In
'a train.
Q. Did you chango cars at any place? A.
No. no. I went .right through.
Q, What time did you get to New York?
A. I don't know, I can't tell you that.
Q, Did you get to New York boforo dark.
or were you over there In the afternoon?
A. Yes, It was before dark.
Q. Did you cat your supper that evening?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did you cat your supper? A.
At some restaurant over there.
Q. This hotel that you went to. where Is
that located In New Vork? A. That is at
126th street and Seventh avenue, I believe.
Q. When was It you shaved your
mustache off? A. Oh. I had that off
well, about threo or four weeks ago.
Q. Did you have It on on election diy?
A. No. I did not.
V O. You did Jiot have It on? A. I had a
bad cold and I had fever blisters here
(Indicating), and the serum would ooze put
anrl tl.a tinlr TtrnilM Ktlrtf Intn It! ftn T
Mjust took the scissors' and I clipped It off
Miand put zlno ointment over It
'51. Q- You mean to say Hurt- you did not
05inr il mufttarhA on election dav or nrlor
ifto election day? A. No. sir, I did not.
Q. When did you clip It? A. Oh, I guess
a couple of weeks before that.
Q. Why did you stop wearing glasses?
A. Well, I wear glasses for reading.
Q. You wore them on primary election
day, didn't you? A. Only when I was mark
lnsf my ballot.
Q. D14n't you wear them as you were
walking around? A. No.
. Q. t-ci us understand It. You went to
New York on the first day aftor election
and went up to this hotel, the St. Theresa,
and registered there fcomo .time toward sup.
pertlmo and stayed there all night? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. You met Mr. Maloney on Friday night?
A, Yes.
Q. And you had been In communication
with him before that? A. 1 sent him a lot
ter where I was,
Q. When did you send this letter? A. That
very day I arrived there.
Q. And sent you word he was romlng?
A. Yes. he sent me word.
Q. Ilow did he send you word? A. It
must 'have been by letter because I was
to see him at 9 o'clock.
Q. You took the 10 o'clock train back
to Philadelphia? A. Tes, sir.
Q. Did you buy any ticket that night?
A I think I did.
Q Where did you buy that ticket? A. At
tho Pennsylvania Uallroad station.
Q. Did Muloney buy n. ticket 7 A, 1 think
ho had n mileage ticket or bought a ticket.
I cannot recall that.
Q. Did you meet anybody as soon as you
got on the train, the men from tho Dis
trict Attorney's oBlce? A. Yes, afterward.
Q. Where did you meet them as soon ns
you got on the train? I didn't meet any-
ooiiy uut Mr. Gordon, Jr.
Q. As soon as you got on the train that
night? A. No, hot as soon' ns I got on the
train. I didn't know they were on tho
train, In fact.
Q. On election day, what time did you
leavo your sister's homo at Sharon Hill? A
li. I guess about dinnertime.
Q. And you came to Philadelphia on tho
elevated? A. Yes.
CJ. You got off nt what station? A. At
l-'lfth and Market.
Q. You went down to tho Fifth Ward?
A. Yes.
Q. I understand that the first place you
went to was this club? A. No, sir, I didn't.
I wont to tho trailing house first
Q. Ilow long did you stay at tho polling
house? A. I stood th6ro talking to Mr.
lllumberg, I guess, about fifteen or tweutj
minutes.
Q. Then where did you go? A. 1 went
around thero and saw this man, Davy liar-
rls, and he told me ho would try to find
George and also a man by the name of
Urodorlck. He said "ho just left here. I
think, to get something to cat."
Q. Well, where did you go after that?
A. I went to the clubhouse.
Q. Who did you sco there at tho club
house? A Well, I saw oh, yes, that was
when Mr. Iilumberg told mo that thero was
a warrant far me. Then I saw Mr. Isaac
Deutsch standing In front of the club, with
four or flvo men In the automobile. I told
what Illuinbcrg had snld.
Q. Did you meet Iilumberg before or after
you got to the clubhousi? A. No. I met
him before, right around tho polling houtc.
Q. When you got to the clubhouse, whom
did you see? A. Isaac Deutsch. In front
of tho clubhouse, with thro or four men
In. tho automobile.
Q. Who did you see In the clubhouse
anybody? A. Thero was this Mike llug
donoft and a man by tho name of William
Goldstein nnd his son, and threo or four
othcrB I don't know.
-."mi
Q You don't know anybody but Goldstein
nnd his son and Dugdonoff? A. t didn't
look at him to know, and ho Just shook
hands with me.
Q. How long did you stay In tho club
houso? A. Well, until thero had been some
talk, Just long enough to converse with this
man for a few minutes, und then there was
somo talk about somo trouble In tho division.
Q. ou left the clubhouse and went
van la Uallroad detective and he said ho
wanted a blackjack? A. Yes,
Q. Who that man was you did not know?
A. No, didn't know.
(J. Nover saw him before? A. Havo seen
lllm, but I didn't know his name.
Q. Can you describe him? A. Yes, pretty
well.
Q. Suppose you describe him? A. He Is
a man about flvo feet seven, dark com
plected, very chunky. Ho didn't havo a
moustache.
Q. Do you remember how he was dressed?
A. No.
SP13AKS) OF SAM DKUTSCII
Q. As I understand, you spoko about Sam
Deutsch. You saw him outsldo tho club,
didn't you? llo wasn't lnsldo tho club?
A. Well, thero was somebody upstairs be
sides llugdonoff, and he appeared fo sud
denly In front of the club that ho must
havo coino out of tho club.
Q. Well, you didn't sec him In the club.
You nro here testifying. A. No: 1 didn't
sco him In the club.
Q. No J you did not sco him In the club.
After that you went to tho police station, I
understand? A, Yes, sir.
Q. Whom did you see nt the police sta
tion? A. I saw Olllccr Murphy, und AMrt
rchafter nnd Uram. and lots of police. They
were tilt strange thero excepting them that
I knew.
Q. They are the only three men you
know? A. I knew Charles Stevenson, a
colored omccr and Mike Sullivan.
Q. What happened thero at that time?
A. Well, In the sergeant's room thero were
about twenty-five or thirty people and
some man at tho desk, and It looked like
they were searching them, and I couldn't
sco Into tho room with tho door leading
from tho street nnd I went around to he
front door, nnd Olllccr Stevenson was thero.
and I says, "What Is this. Charlie" Ho
says, "1 don't know what It Is. 1 'hlnk
tliv nrn tnklntr revolvers from them
Uy Mr. Gordon Q. They were what"
They were taking revolvers from the men
liy Mr. Connor y. i-iu anyiiuiij. vv
happen therc7 A. Well, I asked Mike Sul
Uvan If tho lieutenant was in He says
"No. ho Isn't In." ,
Q. That Is all that happened" And I
says, "What was that thing occurred?'
"Why," ho says. "They overstepped them
selves. They shot a follow and blackjacked
people around there."
Q. And then you got disgusted and went
out of the ward? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did you first learn or have any
knowledge of any kind of those men going
Into the ward? A. On the Monday previous
to tho primary election.
Q. What was told you'.' A. Well, when
I went Into tho ofllco where I work, to
mnko a report on some business that I
had
Hy Mr. Gordon Q. What was liv wnai
CLARK, TODAY'S STAR WITNESS
e
ST.. 1
trouble In tho twelfth division. That Is
Just a Miuaro from there, and they expected
Max' Deutsch to bo there and attend to It.
Ho said, "Jim, go down and seo what It Is."
and It was only half a squaro from tho
clubhouse, and I went down nnd met this
man Uram. He told mo what the trouble
Was about this fellow Interfering with him
or something, and I thought tho man had
a right to do that if ho was Interfering
legitimately, and I told him he should not
feet so 111 toward people, and I simply left
him.
Q. You can't toll us any other person
wlv) was there at the twelfth division
other than Uram? A. Yes, thero was n man
there I saw, this McCabc, nnd I saw a man
named Allmau lnsldo of tho polling house,
Allman was. Then Deutsch had told me
that Allman was all right.
Q. Then after Having the twelfth divi
sion, wnero did you go? A. Thero were
two men met me at tho corner nnd said,
"How Is It for voting?" I said, "What do
you mean, voting?" "Why," they said.
"they got a dollar a crack. Wo voted hero
and wo voted nt the other division across
the. way." I said, "I can't help you In
voting. Do you belong hero? "No," wo
don't belong here," but thoy gave them a
dollar a crack.
Q. Thoso two men you don't know? A.
No, I don't know them.
Q. You never saw them In your llfo be
fore? A. No.
9. Thero Is no way that you could Iden
tify them? A. No, thero hardly Is, because
I will tell you the reason why, because I
said. 'How did you vote who vouched for
you?" They said, "Just near tho corner,
that big fellow standing there." I ald,
"What big fellow?" And I saw thl special
officer, or this detective, O'llricn. standing
there
Q. You have told us all that. 1 don't
want to weary tho court. I want to know
If there Is any way by which you can
Identify these two men? A. No, there Isn't
any way, because It was bo disgusting for
mo for them to tell mo about this man
vouching that I throwed them aside.
Q. You do not think you would know
them? A. No, I do not th'nk I would know
tuein.
This is Jnmes I. Clark, private detective employed by "Sam ' Maloney.
He testified that he piloted the gunmen from New York to Isaac
Ucutsch's club in the Fifth Ward.
where? A. There was some talk about this was It to report on? A. It was an Investi
gation of labor troubles.
liy Mr. Connor Q. An Investigation of
some strlko that was going on? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You folks had been employed by the
employers or laoor? a. les, sir.
Q. Now, go on and tell us what was the
first notice that you had? A. In the outer
ofllco I met Mr. Sullivan, nnd finally Judgo
Persch came to tho door. Magistrate Pcrsch,
and he opened It Just as I was walking in.
No; Sullivan opened tho door as I was
walking In, and Judgo Pcrsch was sitting
In there, and also Mr. Deutsch, Iko Deutsch,
and Mr. Maloney. Mr. Maloney was sit
ting Q. To shorten matters, aro they the only
peoplo who were there? A. Yes.
Q. Somo ono said something about a pick
ax crowd coining Into the ward on election
day. A. Ye, sir.
O. Who said that? A. Iko Deutsch.
Q. Nobody said whero they were coming
from? A. No, I didn't know that.
Q. Tho plck-ax crowd? A. Oh, tho Tenth
Ward.
Q. Of course, from that tlmo on up until
election day you had no thought that there
was going to be any violence at all In tho
Fifth Ward, had you? A. No, sir.
Q. And I understand that on Tuesday
night, tho night before the election, you
said something to Mr. Deutsch, you told
us about these men having blackjacks?
A. Yes. That was aftor tho Flnlettcr
raid.
Q. Where was that conversation held?
A. At tho Kepubllcan League, tai rino
street.
Q. Who were present at the conversation?
A. Mlko Sullivan. Mlko Murphy, Wlrlschaf
ter was moving around, and Uram.
Q. Uram, Wlrtschafter, Mike Murphy,
Deutsch. yourself and Sullivan? A. Yes,
and there waB 100 other people.
Q. You said something about them hav
ing blackjacks. A. Yes.
Q. Deutsch said, "Then I will take them
away from tliem." A. Deutsch, .said, "You
couldn't expect these men to light pick
axes with their mouths." I said, "That
hasn't anything to do wltu tins. You Know
what they promised." Ho says, "Then, wo
will tako them away ironi mem; is inai
I said. "Ail riRiu, 1 win taao
WILSON REFUSES TO
TRANSFER BENNETT,
McNICHOL'S SON SAYS
wiin mese two men where did you go? A.
I walked up Stxth street, I walked up Sixth
street, nnd theso men went up Sixth street.
I didn't want to get near them becauso I
didn't want any talk with them after what
Q. Where Is tho letter? I.ct me see It. TT. rr w.i i i.J i ... n ' . . ,"
t .11. ..- 1 1 1. - . ! armed within about fifty or slxtv feet
, of tho corner there was peoplo comlnc
Hntlsfnetorv?
Q. Now then, after vonr rnnv.-s.itinn ! vour word for that." I said, "Where did
.. .. ----.-.. ..W... ..,. ....,,, .,.,
you get thoso tilings. -Mine nuiuvnn sum,
"I bought them."
Q. Mike Sullivan was working with you
for tho same employer? A. He was work
ing In the same otllco.
Q. This conversation which you nave
A. I do not know where It Is.
Q. What did you do with It? A. I guess I Tn "'Vv.h l . , , "CP'? comU";
I, laid It down in tho room In the hotel. Slf'fJ ,' '""VM u" ' lno un,d
O And -hat n. u.1.1 in ,h !.,.. '"" fJ0"1. 'f"!'.. a"d WOM ople
Q. And what was suld In that letter?
Suppose you tell us. A. I cannot remember
the exact words any moro than "Dear
friend: I will seo you at tho Alhambra Tho
atro tonight at 0 o'clock," Just very brief,
Q. What did you'nnd ho do In New
York on Friday night after you met hhn
at 9 o'clock? A. Wo stood there at tho
Alhambru Theatro speaking. IIo says, "Do
you want to go In the theatre?" I says.
"No, 1 do not care to go In."
3ff Q. Yes. You stood there how long? A.
,tfH4.4 I gUess fifteen minutes.
Q. Then where did you go? A. Why, we
then walked along tho stroet I don't know
what street and he reprimanded mo for
worrying, telling me. "Why, you didn't do
anything Hko this. What are you worrying
, RbOUt?" r
Q. How niueix tune 01a .Maloney spend
with you that night? A. Oh, ust about
fifteen or twenty minutes.
Q. Did you tail him where you wore
going"! A. Why, no. I Intended to go
back to the hotel. IIo advised me to go'
away, ho say, from those hotels, irhere
jou havo things on your mind, and go and
sit down and get a room for yourself.
Q, On Friday Maloney told you that you
hud nothing to worry about, didn't he? A.
fd. He. says. "Jlromle. you liava got noth-
BSlfl(r to worry about" He said, "You didn't
PCt do un thing like this. You wouldn't do it
t ...,.,. nnvKn.lv tlit Ifnfwfl vml lennwit vntl
,.' TV rX ' wouldn't do a thing like this. You can'tJ
. v .. ' hulti ir
&MrL s rtl,t 1... .all V.11 wliv vml iiHn'1 nnv
1 ii ', to .worry or- why he was sure that you
" 'T s ',... trfn. hnV tn wnrfV? A.-"WhV. hftrAAiaA
, ' ho knew the same aB any one clue that I
wouldn't be mixed up In a thing or sucn a
character. That Is aDout all, no Knows
jmofpir years.
0,, Did tie tell you that ho knew under
i he law you would not have to worry, that
wh Wens TiQt reaponsiDiei A. -o. ue
vBRKi uownns aooui iu ai uu. ijo uiuu i
').... n. (IidiL- about that.
&. f,lr he told you that T suppose you
peu ?voirymc, uioni yuui j. iimi,
t think 1 did. no. because I thought I
$Mi)wM ' some trouble there In a strange'
Mty artting WOrK Hi one 01. uicsa linns, mu
yt I kiioiv most ail the peoplo In tho build
,lnt ttJAnd I don't think I would have any
if JpW Maloney give you any money?
a y. TMro was somo money du roe
ti-ji (be (tk?u
' Tfipw utweU 4id lie give you? A Wed,
t a K"ic hmW Ja my poek.it,
14 n,.iv qgfti 410. Maloirey give you?
A ; think it -ph-Wi. there Vran t?I due
i-i- 1 k.iow tlw i ''."
rushing nil over Sixth street. Then I
heard somo shots, and a woman ran past
mo and two or three others, and knocked
tha chain right off my vest I stooned
down to pick it up and I went Into the
clubhouse.
Q. Ycu went into the clubhouso? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you have your glasses on at that
time? A. No, I did not.
Q. You did not When you got to the
clubhouse whom did you see? A. I saw
Bagdonoff.
Q. No one else? A. There was other peo
ple there.
Q. No ono else you recognized was there?
A. Excepting Mlkp Murphy, when he came
In.
Q. Murphy came In and asked If u man
had run In there"? A. Yes, Murphy nnd
these other men with him.
Q. And he, was standing by Murphy?
He made some remark to you he had u
mind to arrest everybody In tho place? A.
Bald he was going to lllnch tho whclu place:
"Well," I Bays, "that Is up to you." Then
this Colored man rushes in.' "My God,"
lib says, "Jimmy, all them peoplo has got
revolvers around there. You know I ain't
afraid of anything, but I am afraid of
that." He says: "Somebody must do some
thing. Thoso officers said, 'We will go
around there' I says, 'Well, go around
with them,' and they went around, and
then I went to the station house."
GO WITH COLOItED MAN
Q. So then Murphy and this other pian
you ihought was a police officer, they went
up with the colored man? A. Yes.
Q. You did not see any omcera In that
club after that -while you were thero? A.
Then Uagdonolt says, "that man, he ran
in the house."
Q. You didn't ede any other officers there
while you were there? A. No, air,
Q. .Then you went upstairs and satv a
man with blood on him? A. In the bath
room. I didn't go upstairs. Bagdonoff
.said, "That man, he ran in here," and he
opened the bathroom and that man stood
there.
Q. And tie had blood on him? A. Yes,
he had blood on him.
Q. Where did he have the blood on him?
iV. Over his ahirt
Q. Wia.t part of the club was this man
In at that time you saw him there landing
Willi blood on his shirt? A. In the toilet
Q, What part of the club on tho second
floor: tho front or back? A, Tho back.
a. The back, go you did b. up to ,th
secewi Wf A.V When he. M m Uw$.
Just told us about what part of the club
house was that held In? Where had you
the talk about tho blackjacks when theso
five men wero present whom you named
and a great many others whom you can
not name? A. That was right In tlio cor
ridor, the upper parlor door.
Q. How many people do you think were
there at that time? A. There was lots In
tho parlor and lots upstairs.
Q. Itlght there where you were having
this conversation? A. No, sir. This par
ticular conversation took place at the upper
parlor door. Just between oursolvcB,
Q. Between the five of you? A. Yes, sir.
It wasn't talked about
Q. AVhat hour In tho night was that? A.
It was after tho Finletter raid.
Q. What time? A. It was later than
7 o'clock and not as late as 10 o'clock. It
might have been ubout half past nine or so,
but I tell you I didn't tako no time as re
gards those things. I didn't look at my
watch when everything happened. 1 had
no occasion to do It
Q. Mr. Clark, yesterday you told us of a
conversation between you and Deutsch nnd
the lieutenant A. Yes.
Q. And Deutsch said to the lieutenant.
according to your statement, that men
would be brought around there to stand off
somo fellows, and tho lieutenant would
knojv them) by a white ribbon? A, Yes.
Q. Where was that conversation held?
A. In the , lieutenant's room of tho Third
District police station.
Q. On the day beforo election? A, After
the men were delivered at G31 Pine street
It may have been 7 o'clock or half past
seven.
Q. To your best recollection, Is that the
time? A. I can not say the time, but It
was right after tho men wero In the club
house. Q. What. time did you eat your supper
tliat vnlnn? A. After this occurrence.
You persist in asking me what time. -I
don't know.
Q. Yes, I persist In asking you. and I
want to get the answer. A. I don'ti know
what time, but It was after I had beep In
the lieutenant's room.
Q, Who went to supper with you? A.
Mike Sullivan.
Q. About bow long before you Bat down
ito have your supper did this conversation
with the lieutenant take place? A. I walked
from the station with Isaao Deutsch to the
clubhouse, and there I met Mlko Sullivan,
and he said he felt hungry.
Q, At your conversation at the station
house, who was present? A. The lieutenant
and Mr. Deutsch dnd myself
Q, Did you see any ono In the station
houM whom you knew at that time' 4V )
didn't look. X know when I walked down
front the club to the station Jiouse that
Mike Murphy, the special effieer. MPd Wirte
Sehatttr "wH1 dqwn wltfc sm M, UW Ma
HAJtllY A. MrNICHOIi suurn.
By Mr. Goidon Q. You nro the son of
Senator James P. McNIchol? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did" you tee Thomas 11. Smith tho
Monday beforo election? A. Monday night
beforo election.
Q. Whcrodld you see lilm? A. Atlantic
City.
Q. PIouho tell 1110 the rouvcrsatlun you
had with him. A. 1 called on tho Mayor
and ho asked mo tho condition of my
father, and I told lilm that It was a very
serious case, and tin- doctor had told 1110
that afternoon, that If he received any great
shocks It might bo fatal to him. So the
Mayor told mo ho wai very much depressed
over the condltlton and told 1110 ho would
do anything in his power lie could to help
hhn. So 1 told lilm he was very much
Interested In Jimmy Carey's light In the
Fifth Ward, nnd 1 thought If ho read on
the day after election that' hojiad been de
feated. It would bo a shock lo-hliii, and t
was down there then to nsk him if ho
could not prevent thut In ahy'.wsfy. and ho
said that ho would do anything he could.
So I told tho Mayor my father had told 1110
In had promised to put Captain Callahan In
charge of tho Third District, mid ho wild,
r.o. ho had never promised that, t told
him I didn't know whether ho had or not,
but my father was under tho Impression
that he hud and was banking on It. He
said. "Well, I never did promise lilm. but
under the conditions, and seeing tho scrlou
condition ho Is In, I will put Captain Cal
lahan in charge tomorrow."
Q. In charge of what? A. Tho Third
district pollco station, and 1 thanked lilm
very much, and i also told I1I111 that Mr.
Carey and Mr. Stem had told jne that thero
were nine men transferred from the Second
District to tho Third and were doing strong
arm stuff down there.
AVAHNS OF STRONG-11M STUFF
Q. What strong-arm stuff did you tell
lilm they wero doing? A. 1 told him Just
what I had heard from Mr. Stem und .Mr.
Carey that thoy wore-
n Vlint did von tell him? A. That If
any of tho Carey men would be walking
along the streets nnd they would bump Into
them, and they wouiii rcseiu max, iimi
another olllccr would como along and grab
them and tako them to tho station house,
und I told him 1 didn't sec anything fair
In It. ,
Q. You Mild ihero weic nine men removed
from the Second to, tho Third districts?
A. Thnt was my- understanding; that 1
what I told tho Mayor
Q. What did ho say? A. That ho Would
tend to that tomorrow, that he didn't intend
to go to ths oily until Tuesday afternoon.
but ho would go up in tno morning ami
havo Director Wilson meet lilm nt noon
tlmo and have thoso men transferred lmc,k
to their own district.
Q. Did you tell hhn who somo of those
nlno men were? A. I mentioned three
names, all that r could remember.
Q. What were they? A. Uram, Feldman
and Wlrtschafter.
Q. Did he say ho would havo them re
moved back to their own district tho next
day. A. Ho was to meet Director Wilson
at noontime on Tuesday.
A. And that ho would havo those men
transferred back to their own district? A.
Captain Callahan tent down to the Third
Ulsttlct.
Q. What about Tuesday? A. Tuesday
I learned from Mr. Carey, about, I guess,
about half-past six or u quarter to seven.
Hurt, thoso men were still In tho district .
so I called the Mayor's home on tho phone
at Atlantic City about ten minutes of eight.
Q. That night? A. Tuesduy night They
told me they didn't oxpect lilm down until
about 9 o'cloek, to call then. At about
five minutes of nine I got tho Mayor, on
tho phono and I told lilm first I told htm
tho condition of my father, nnd I told Jlm
that I Just learned that those men. he had
promised to transfer were still In t)io dis
trict Ho told ino ho had left orders! ut 6
o'clock for those men to bo sent back, but
that he had not given It out to the" papers,
so, I thought maybo they would he trans
ferred, so after that
Q. Pardon me. What farther did the
Mayor say? .Whom did he give tho order
to, did -QU say? A. Superintendent Itobln
son. . '
'Q. AVhat further did he suy? A. Then
he said he understood they wero to be trans
ferred. I told hhn thej hadn't been trans
ferrcd.
Q. Did ho say what they were doing? A.
Snmo us usual. That is all 1 know.
iNTi:rtFi:niNo avith caiihy men.
Q. Did you tell hltn what was going on In
thu ward that night? A. I told lilm 'the
samo thing was going on, ns) 1 told him
they wero still going around Interfering
with Carey's men.
(J. AVhat did he cny? A. IIo suld he had
attended to It at 0 o'clock.
Q. Anything fuither did ho say? A. That
is nil.
Q. That was about 9 o'clock? A. Nine
or ten minutes after !'. Tuesday evening,
tj. About 9 o'clock Tuesday night? A.
Yes, sir.
(J. Did ho say lie was going to town the
next day? A. That he would be up the first
thing in the morning.
Q. What for? A. To take chaige of tho
Fifth Ward.
Q. Ho would take charge of the Flfflf
AA'ard? A. Personal ch irgc.
Q. Did you say anything to lilm then
about Captain Cullahan not being there?
A. Not that Tuesday night., .
Q. What about diction day? Did you
see lilm? A. I saw lilm nfter Carey was
hurt.
Q. After Kpplcy was murdered? A. Yes.
sir, In his ollicc.
DE.SCUH1R3 CAIHSY'S CONDITION
Q AVhat did you say und what did ho
say? A. Well, I told lilm that I had Just come
from the Fifth AVaid and had seen Jimmy
Curey and ho was very badly beaten up.
I, didn't know then that tho olllccr was
dead. And he Kild. "It Is a terrible thing,"
und I said, "It certainly Is," and 1 says,
"There will be somo more of it down
there If somebody doesn't stop It," and I
also told him thut those men ho was to
transfer tho night before were still work
ing In tho ward on AVednesday morning, anil
ho says, "No. I think they Mere transferred
last night." 1 says, "Well, Mr., Mayor, they
tell me, people that know them well down
theic, hue seen them there this morning."
Ho Kiys, "Just u minute." and ho called
for Director AVIIson.
Director AVIIson camo In and he asked
hhn, "Were thos-c men transferred?" Di
rector AVIIson said ho thought they were,
und I told hhn it was not bo, that I knew
they were not transferred. So all the
Miyor said was,, "I left distinct orders to
have them trnnsrerrtii last nignt, and 1
think Director AVIIson told lllm that he
transferred one man, u man .named Frlden
bcrg; ho was the only olio he mentioned.
I told htm If h did transfer one thero were
still eighth down there. Tho Mayor gave
lilm- orders to remove them Immediately
from that district. That us ubout a
quarter past eleven.
Q. Did you say anything to him about
Captain Callahan not being there? A. 1
asked htm why ho hud not sent Captain
('illinium in tho district. I suyf, "You might
not havo prom'sed my father, but you
promised 1110 absolutely, on Monday night,
you would have Captain Callahan In charge
of the Third District on election day," or
om Tuesday ho was to put lilm there, and
ho said, "Well, I could havo sent him there.
but I didn't send Captain Callahan to the.
Third District becnuso Judgo Goidon sug
gested his name to your father," I told
hint then I didn't think that was so. thai
t thought my father vould liave picked
Captain Callahan out If he liad the pick
himself.
Q. He said that I suggested Captain Cal
lahan? A. Yw, sir.
Q. Dd you tell him anything nbout Cap
tain Callahan being his appointee and
friend? A. I nsked htm It lie would send
Captain Callahan then, and he said, .No,
nnd 1 said. "AVcll, Cnptaln Callahan U a
Dtrnltht man, and Hinoir It you send him
dowh thero J'ou will get order,' and he
siiys that lib knows he Is u good man ; that
lie was his personal appointment -
Q, ICIeven o'clock on election 'i.uyi or
therenuouts. Did he sny anything else ho
had done that day? Did he .say unythlns
about mounted police?
A. He told mc that he had Just gathered
nil tho mounted police that ho could tfU
o be sent Into tho Fifth AVard, and Director
AVllson corroborated that and said ho would
send more down thuro If nccesKary. I told
lilm that that was very good politics, that
that Mould Intlmldato thn. voters that muc.i
hiore.
t. Did ho say ho had Just sent, them
doirn? A. Just sent them down.
Q. AVhat did ho way Mhcti you told lilm
Oint was,cry good politics, that It would
Intlmldato tho voters that much more.- i.
Tho Mayor suld nothing. Director AVIIson
Jusl gave'n sneer or snlclic;'.
WILSON STANDS BY BUNNISTT
Q Did anything olso occur? A. Yes. Di
rector AVIIson wanted to know how ho could
prevent It I told him. "Very easily, by
moving llenueli." und ho g'.t up from tho
chair and he said ho wouldn't move 15-. 11
uett for unybody In Philadelphia
By tho Court Q. Who tald that? Di
rector AVIIson? A. Director AVIIson.
Q. That ho would not icmovo Bennett
for anybody In Philadelphia? A. For nnj
body In Philadelphia.
Q. In tho presence of tho Mayor? A. The
AInvnr nnd hi brother.
By Mr. Gordon Q. What else occurred?
Tlio .Mayor tain ne woum uoi u m"
to remove Bennett, becauso he wns under
firo and, he was going to Mick to lilm until
he wus either proved guilty or proxed In
nocent. 1 told htm that that wouldn't do
nny good, because It Mould lake two or
three xreoks before there would be any
trial of Bennett or nny one olso. und he
ould still be In charge 011 election uay.
qUe natd xvhat then? A He said he
was going to stick to lilm. '
Q Anything else? A That is nil.
Q Did you sco him again? A .Vuslr.
By the Court Q.AVho was It said lie was
going to stick to htm Director AVIIson or
the Mayor? A. The Mayor.
Q(3olng to stick to Lieutenant Bennet?
A lieutenant Bennett, until he-was proved
guilty. v.
By Mr. Gordon Q. How long did yor
Interview lust? A. I Judge about twenty
minutes to half an hour.
O. tin vnu know where the Mayor xvcllt
1 nfli.t-n-nnl? A. Vn ijlr.
O. Havo vou told ua everything of sub-
btnncd and rclcx-alit about the Fifth AA'ard'
and tho pollco there that passed betweci
you and tho Mayor? A. A cs, sir.
MAYOIt "STAUTKD" BY McNICHOL
Q. AVhcn you spoke about your father
to the Slayor tho first day. on Monday, what
did the Mayor say. If anything, to you
respecting his rclutlons t. your futher und
his obligations? AVhat did ho Hiy about
his relations to your father? A. Tho rela
tions with my father had always been the
closest ami he always hnd tho utmos. re
gard for lilm : that ho really owes his start
in llfo to my father; that thero xx-as nothing
ho xvould do to Injuro hhn In any xvay, und
I could tell lilm that his Interests xvould be
well taken care of xvhllc he xvas sick.
CBOSS-F.XAMINATION.
Mr. Beltlcr Q. And the Mayor's attltudfc
toward you and through you, toward your
father, xvas Just xvhat you expected from a
friend of your fathcr'B? A. Absolutely, yes.
Q. Aro you certain that tho Mayor told
you that he. had told Superintendent Kobln
son to remove theso fnen? Didn't he say
that ho had told Director AVilson to remove
kthese men? A. I think ho said ho told Su
perintendent Jloblnsou over tho phone to
leave orders at 0 o'clock.
Q. AA'licn you saw him you tald your
recollection was that ho told you that one
man had been removed. Didn't ho tell you
that all tho men had been removed but one?
A. No.islr; he told mo that 0110 man had
been removed. Seldenberg xvas his mime.
Q. That Is your recollection? A. Yes. sir.
CJ. Did you nsk to have Captain Callahan
supplant Captain Kcnncy? A. The Mayor
told 1110 ho xi-ould put Captain Callahan In
charge of tho Fifth AVard, or Third District.
Q. Put n captu'n In charge of a district?
A. Absolutely.
CJ. Noxi of course, you knoxv that a cap
tain has charge of u division xx'hlcti cm
brace many districts? A. I know that, sir
Q. A'ou know thnt Cnptaln Kenny was
the captain of the division? A. Yes.
Q. Didn't tho Mayor say to you. Mr. Mc
NIchol, that he had mado no promise to
your father to keep Captain Kenny out of
the division und put Captain Callahan In'
A. No, ho told mo he had never promised
my father to put Captain Callahan down,
but under ytho circumstances, considering
his position, being very HI, ho xvould put
Captain Callahan doxvn tomorrow. That
xvould be Tuesday.
Q. Ho Intended coming to the city earlier
than he anticipated In order to do that?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Gordon Q. Were you Irf the Fifth
Wurd Tuesday? A. Tuesday night
CJ. Did you see tho raid on tho Finletter
Club' A No, sir. I xxus thero In tn
nttecn minutes after It happened, ftbout,
Q. AVero you In the xvnrd on election HI
a. 10s.
Q At tho tlmo of the shooting" juf
1011 uarey uuotu uxu iiuuuic' nerore thi
snooting.
Q. Before he xvas beaten? A Ye
Q. On the day beforo 4hc shootlm? rft.
you sco Uram. AVIrts, Sclintter nnd Murphw
thcrc7 A. I do not know any of them, jfl
nover saxv uny ono of them to nij l.nor?
cugc.
ir. uoruou. iror 1110 present mat is nl
By the Court Q. Did you see the shoot!
inc; sA. AOt xvncio 1 vns.
ny .xir..jiciiier cj. xvivn wu you go IntSl
inc r 11 111 nam on election nay xvnat tlm?
Iii the morning A. Nino o'clock or tea
mmuics niter nine
Q. Do you live lif'lho Fifth AAad" a!
,xu, sir.
Q. AVhat xvurd do you livo ln7 A
Forty-sixth.
Q. AVhat c Is tin Forty-.;lxilt AVar.il
AVhcre do you live? A. 4G5-1 Hazel aVemi
Q. That Is uut toward tlio Park, toxvibdl
the noriiixx-csi. a. ao.
Q, Tho south? A. Yen. tout!,
ny air. uoruon u. it xuh urui' von haS
been In tho Fifth AA'ard 011 Tuesday aria
you know of the raid on thyFInletter Ckibj
Hint you tullted to tlio Mnyor? A. No.'UJ
ttuiteii "Willi tno .xiiiyor ivioti- lite luld. 'M
Q. It xvas nfter the healing nt Cur.y n,,al
the killing of tho policeman, ulthougli you
didn't I.pjw that, that you tullted to thej
Mayor til uity nniiv a. Acs, l.p
HOTEL CLERIC SWEARS
FINLEY REGISTERED AT
RITZ'CARLTON SEPT. 171
WILLIAM P. DUFF, sxxorn
uy .ur. uoruou vj. 1011 aio tier;, ut tu
ltlts-Carlton Hotel? A. Ac.-, sir
(A paper In shown to tho xvltnejs.l
IJ. AVhnt Is that sheet xvhlch I shoxv youv
A. That Is No. i' registry sheet, &
IJ. xvnat datov A. September IT. j
CJ. Of the guests nt tho hotel? A. erf,
tho guests at the hotel.
Q. I show you under "Name" the fol-
luxx-lng entry: "AVllIluni Ii. Flnlcy nnd xvlfej
Philadelphia," Did yuo see that xvrlttent,
A. 1 es. sir,
r "XVI, n wrnlr, It? A Ate 1,'lntev
CJ. Sitting there,, (one of tho defendants
indicated)? A. Acs, sitting mere.
Cl. To what room xvas he assigned?
104.
CJ. Ilow loug did ho remain there? A. He
checked out on the 20th.
Q. Do yob remember uny Incident at the
time of his checking out? A. Mr. Flnley
camo downstairs. Ho said ho xx'as giving
up his room. Ho xx-ould send his man after
I1I1 bag.
CJ. Did his man como after his bag
A. Ilia man came uftcr his bag, a colored
man.
CJ. Did ho glvi you anything. A II
gax'c 1110 Mi. Flnley's card.
CJ. AVhnt wnu on It? . "W. L. Flnlej'
Mercantile Aiinraiser."
Q. AVhat did you do xx-ltli it? A. I ken,
It for a xvhllo and looked ut "It and then
pushed It In the wasto basket.
Mr. Gordon. Cross e'xanilne, gentlemen,
CHO.SS-KXAMINATION
Bx .Mr. Abbott .Q. Is this the only cliari
you brought vx-lth you? A. I beg your
pardon, tr.rv
Q, Is this tho only chart or the only
registry chart you brought with you? A,
That Is tho only registry chart there lsd
Q. AVI10 xvas with Mr. and Mrs. Flnley
A. I don t recall, sir.
Q. AVere they tho oulj ones of a party"
registered thero nt that tlmo? . I could'
t,M. uni' sir. jim thn hnlel Ir X'prv hllsx. Rir
Q. How long hax-o you been connected
xvlth the Illtz-Carlton? A. Since November
in 1911.
Q. So that you are familiar and ac
quainted xvlth all the prominent guests that
x-ou havo there? A. Yea.
q, AViio occupies tuo room iin: a. a
man by tho name of I. Jc.ines and family.
Q. A reputable Quaker family? A. Quite
so. x j
Q. And they hax'O been permanent guests J
White, Brown, Gray, Black J
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