bring thebufmefs before the committee in a proper polnfofview:
He conceived the fuhje£l of his firft resolution, viz. to fund the
debt the present feflion, was the firft question to betaken into con
federation. In order to bring before the committcea just and ade
quate idea of the debt, he recurred to the journals of the late
Congress : He commenced his researches with the year 1779 ; and
read the resolves, declarations, addreffesand engagements of Con
gress from period to period relative to the loans, ferviccs, sup
plies, &c. He then said, that he conceived that there was not a
person within the found of his voice, poffefling the feelings of ho
nor and humanity, who would harbor an idea against funding the
debt of the United States : He touched on the public sentiment
the present situation of the country ; and after repeating some of
the observations contained in the report of the Secictary, said, he
doubted not that the question for funding would meet the ideas
of a decided majority of this house : The manner how this should
be done will be an after consideration : He concluded by observ
ing that he felt full confidence that before the present feflion should
be closed, the arduous and important business would be corn
pleated.
Mr. Fitzfimons read in his place several resolutions affirmative
of the great objects contained in the report of the Secretary, which
he laid on the table : They are as follow :
Resolved, That adequate provision ought to be made for ful
filing the engagements of the United States in refpe&to their fo
reign debt.
Resolved, That permanent funds ought to be appropriated for
the payment of interest on, and the gradual discharge of the do
mestic debt of the United States.
Resolved, That the arrears of interest, including indents, issu
ed in payment thereof, ought to be provided for on the fame
terms with the principal of the said debt.
Resolved, That the debts of the refpettive States ought, with
the content of the creditors, to be assumed and provided for by
the United States.
Resolved, That it is advifeable toendeavor to efTcfl a new mo
dification of the domestic debt, including that of the particular
States, with the voluntary consent of the creditors, by a loan, up
on terms mutually beneficial to them and to the United States.
Resolved, That for the purpose exprefled in the last preceding
resolution, fubferiptions toward a loan ought to be opened, to
the amount of the said domestic debt ; including that of the ref
pe&ive States, upon the terms following, to wit :
That for every hundred dollars fubferibed, payable in the said
debt (as well interest as principal) the fubferiber be entitled, at
his option, either
To have two thirds funded at an annuity, or yearly interest of
fix per cent, redeemable at the pleasure of the government, by
payment of the principal ; and to receive the other third in lands
in the Western Territory, at the rate of twenty cents per acre*
Or,
To have the whole sum funded at an annuity or yearly interest
of four per cent, irredeemable by any paymenr exceeding five
dollars per annum on account both of principal and jntercft ; and
to receive as a compentation for the reduction of interest, fifteen
dollars and eighty cents, payable inlands, as in the preceding
cafe. Or
To have fifty-fix dollars and two thirds of a dollar funded im
mediately at an annuity or yearly interest of fix per cent, irre
deemable by any payment exceeding tour dollars and two thirds
of a dollar per annum, on account both of principal and interest;
and to have, at the end ot ten years, twenty-fix dollars and eighty
eight cents, funded at the like interest and rate of redemption
Or
To have an annuity for the remainder of life, upon the con
tingency of living to a given age, not less distant than ten years,
computing interest at four per cent. Or
To have an annuity for the remainder of life, upon the con
tingencvofthe survivorship of the youngest of two persons, com
puting interest, in this cafe also, at four per cent.
Resolved, That immediate provision ought to be made for the
present debt ot the United States; and that the faith of govern
ment ought to be pledged to make provision, at the next session,
for so much of the debts of the refpeftive States, as (hall have been
fubferibed upon any of the terms expressed in the last resolution.
Resolved, That the funds which shall be appropriated accord
ing to the second of the foregoing resolutions, be applird, in the
firft place, to the payment of interest on the sums tubferibed to
wards the proposed loan ; and that if any part of the said do
mestic debt shall remain unfubferibed, the surplus of the said
funds be applied, by a temporary appropriation, to the payment
of interest on the unfubferibed part, so as not to exceed, for the
present, four per cent per annum ; but this limitation shall not
be understood to impair the right ot the non-fubferibing credi
tors totherefidue of the interest on their refpeftive debts : And in
cafe the aforefaid surplus should prove inefficient to pay the non
fubferibing creditors, at the aforefaid rate of four per cent, that
the faith of government be pledged to make good such deficiency.
Mr. Page moved that the report of the Secretary should be
read. The Clerk then commenced reading, and having proceed
ed as saras the 1 ith page—lt was moved that the committee should
rife : They accordingly rose, and the House adjourned.
TUESDAY? FEBRUARY 9.
The memorial of fundrv inhabitants of the town of Salem,
presented yesterday, was on motion ot Mr. Goodhue taken up for
a second reading, and referred to the Secretary of the Treasury.
Mr. Benfon presented the memorial of Brigadier General Do
nald Campbell, praying that an investigation ot his claims against
the United States may be made.
Mr. Boudinot presented a petition from the contra&ors for car
rying the mail through New-Jersey, which was read, and refer
red to the committee appointed to take into consideration the re
gulation of the poft-office.
In committee of the whole on the report of the Secretaryof the
Treasury.
Mr. Page proposed that those gentlemen who had brought for
ward certain resolutions, lhould direst the attention of the House
to those parts of the report to which they mean particularly to
refer, that such part may be read.
Mr. Smith, (S. C.) withdrew the propositions which he laid on
the table yesterday.
The resolutions proposed by Mr. Fitzfimons were then read by
the Clerk.
The firft resolution being read by the chairman ; and the ques
tion being-taken on the fame, it passed in the affirmative unani
mously.
The second resolution was then read, on which Mr. Jackson rose
and observed, that tho he had as great a fenfc of the merit of our
public creditors, those who had fought our battles, and hadeffeft
ed the independence of America as any man ; yet there is a ques
tion on the fubjeft before the House, which he conceived of as
great consequence as any that had been fuggtfted, and that is whe
ther the present is the season for funding the domestic debt of the
United States. He then reprobated funding systems altogether :
Adverted to the effe&s which had been experienced from them
in Florence, Genoa, and Great-Britain ; and asserted that some of
those States had loft their independence through the debts which
had thereby been entailed on them. Great Britain by adopting a
funding system, has accumulated a debt which they never can get
rid of.
From these remarks he inferred the pernicious confcquences
of a system for funding the debt of the United States ; and refer
ring to the present unrepresented State of North-Carolina, and
the uncertainty with refpett to the quantum of the debt ; the state
of the western territory, &c. concluded by moving that the report
lhould lie on the table fur further consideration.
Mr. Sherman observed that the present question before the com
mittee is simply, whether the debt shall be funded : The various
particulars to which the gentleman last speaking alluded, are not
now before the committee : Whether the debt (hall be placed up
on irredeemable funds, is a fubje&of future confuleration.
Mr. Smith made some obfeivations in reply to Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson moved that the committee should rife, which mo
tion being put, was negatived by a great majority.
Mr. Bland enquired why there was a difference in the phraseo
logy of the two firft resolutions ? He could not fee the propriety
orjuftice of making a discrimination between our domestic and fo
reign creditors. We have pledged ourselves by adopting the firft
resolution to fulfil our engagements to our foreign creditors, before
we have ascertained whether we are able to do it; but the resolu
tion refpefting our domestic creditors, leaves them in a very differ
ent situation. He wished to be informed for what reason the dif
ference was made, as he meant to propose a substitute for the reso
lution now under consideration.
Mr. Fitzfimons in reply informed the committee that the cir
cumrtances of the foreign debt were such, as left no alternative,
but that of coming to a prccife and definite resolution upon the
fubjett. With refpett to the domestic debt, agreeable to the re
port of the Secretary of the Treasury, a different plan of procedure
is offered ; still the modification proposed is to be submitted to
the option of the creditors.
Mi . Bland then read a resolution refpc&ing the domestic debt,
which was similar to that adopted refpe&ing the foreign debt; this
he proposed as a substitute for the second resolution.
Mr. Livermore entered into a consideration of the circumstan
ces under which the domestic and foreign debts were incurred, and
gave it as his opinion that the United States are not under obliga
tions to make a fpecific provision for the domestic debt agreeable
to the face of the iecurities which are considered as the evidences
of the debt. With refpeft to the foreign debt, it is for loans re
ceived from persons no ways interofted in the revolution of the
country, and it must be paid. He was opposed to the resolution
in its present form, as it went to make an unqualified provision for
the domestic debt.
Mr. Bland faid,there was no man who will go further than himfelf
in fulfilmg to the utmost of his power, every public contrast, and
to pay the bona fide debts, both foreign and domestic, of the Uni
ted States, to the utmost farthing. On this principle it was, that
he proposed the resolution he had offered, as it appeared to be the
only way of bringing the fubjeft fairly before the committee. He
could not fee the propriety of the discrimination made by the
gentleman last speaking, between the foreign and domestic debt,
as the fa£t is, that by transfers the foreign debt is now become in
part the property of the citizens of the United States, and on the
other hand great part of the domestic debt is alienated to foreign
ers. He therefore offered the resolution which he had read---if
he was fcconded he should be glad, if not, he should set down
contented.
Mr. Scott in a speech of some length on the fubjeft, observed,
that the legislature of the United States is to be considered on this
occasion as fitting as referees in a cafe of equity and justice—the
only enquiry therefore is, what is the sum which the United States
absolutely and bona fide owe—if on enquiry it is found that the os
tensible demand is double what ought in justice to be paid, they
will determine accordingly, andftrikeoff that half, nor can we
answer it to our constituents to make provision for paying one far
thing more than the sum which on a lull mveftigation of the fub
jc£t lhall appear to be due—He concluded by moving an amend
ment to the resolution by adding the following words, viz. as
soon as the fame shall be afcertiined, and duly liquidated.
Mr. Boudinot replied to Mr. Scott—and controverted the prin
ciple he had advancccd that Congress was to be considered as a ju
dicial body on this occasion—He ftatcd the terms on which the
debt had been corn rafted, the dependence which the creditors
had of obtaining final justice from their country ; the perni
cious consequences that would result from adopting such a
principle, as it would destroy every vestige of confidence in the
honor of the United States, and put it entirely out of our power to
effect any future loans, let the emergency be ever so great.
Mr. Lawrance said, that the obictt of the gentleman from Penn
sylvania, appears to be a le-liquiaation of the debt of the United
States, on a supposition that the evidences which the creditors have
obtained are for a larger sum than they ought to have received for
iheir supplies and services ; but what is the tendency of such an
mveftigation of the business—does it not involve the grossest im
peachment of that government under which the deVt was con
tracted—does it not tend to throw an equal proportion of the bur
thens incurred in the acquisition of our independence upon one
particular class of citizens, whose merits and services certainly en
title them to different treatment—the whole body of the people
have received an equivalent for the whole debt— and this scheme
of re-licjuidation will produce a discrimination which will prove
cruelly injurious to a class of citizens who have contributed per
haps the mod to the success of the country in their late arduous
struggles, by reposing the fulleft trust and confidence in the justice
and honor of the States.
Mr. Jackson observed that however the idea of a discrimination
may be reprobated by the gentleman last speaking, the question
■will certainly come before the House. There is a discrimination
between the foreign and domestic debt, which every man must
acknowledge. The foreign debt is due from those who are cre
ditors to the United States: Surely these creditors will be wiling
to pay, or make provision to pay their debts, before they will cla
mor against the government for their demands. This fhew.s that
the consideration of the domestic should be deferred, while the
foreign debt ought to be immediately provided for.
Mr. Ames went into a particular examination of the do&rine
advanced by Mr. Scot, and shewed the pernicious consequences
that would result from its operation, as being fubvcTfive of every
principle on which public contra&s are founded. That the evi
dences of the debt poffefTed by the creditors of the United States,
cannot in reason, justice, and policy, be considered in any other
light than as public bonds, for the redemption and payment of
which the lands, the property, and labor of the whole people are
pledged. The public in this cafe, is as it were perfonified ; nor
is there any conceivable difference, except it is in favor of the cre
ditor, betweenthe public and an individual in this cafe. On this
idea the public is trufled ; and for them to assume the office of
judge on the occasion, is a meer arbitrary a£t of power, which
never can be exercised, but to the dcftru&ion of theeffential inter
ests of the people, and must terminate in a dissolution of the social
compatt.
Mr. Sherman said that he agreed in sentiment with the gentle
man from Pennsylvania in part, but could not extend the opera
tion of the principle to such alength as he did. The Legislature
must necessarily ast in a judicial capacity in some cases : It judges
of accounts exhibited against the government, and determines up
on them : He instanced in a variety of particulars, the interference
of this power, and which, said he, cannot rcafonably be objected
to; but this power cannot be extended to judge upon debts that
are acknowledged by the government; in this light he consider
ed the liquidated dcDtof the United States : On which the Le
gislature can have no more right to judge than an individual who
is a party to a private contract : For if they can thus interfere, the
credit of the United States is placed in a rery deplorable situation
indeed. He moved to confine the provision to that part of the
debt which is already liquidated.
Mr. Goodhue reprobated the idea of discrimination, and reliqui
dation. He observed, that if the objett is to take advantage of the
depreciated rate of public securities, it will be wisest to defer all
further consideration on the fubjeft at present, for the purpose of
availing ourselves of a still lower rate of depreciation.
Mr. Scott enforced the general ideas of his former speech, and
to juftify the sentiment adduced sundry instances of the conduct of
the parliament of Great-Britain, in erasing houses and making
high ways over the places where they stood, and other invasions of
private propeity —he contended the debt stood on a similar foot- J
347
ing with other contracts on which qtteflions of equity and justice
may arifc and be determined with the greatest propriety.
The debate was continued, by fevei al of the gentlemen's speak
ing repeatly on the amendment—Mr. Stone, Mr. White, and Mr.
Sedgwick added a few remarks. Thetime being expended, and
several gentlemen exprefTing a wish to revolve the fubjeft flill fur
ther in their own minds—a motion was made that the committee
should rife—-which being put was carried in the affirmative—
The House then adjourned.
EXTRACT
Of a Letter from London, dated November 2, 1789, continued from
No. 85, of this Gazette.
HTHE objects that rife into view, in reading the debates of
A Congress impress a most favorable idea of the situation of
America. \ our citizens seem to be contemplating ufeful points
in the science of morality and government. Every fubjett is dis
cussed on rational grounds, and decided upon the real merits of
the question. she important truth seems to be acquiesced in ,that
public honcfty is the only basis of public happiness. What im
provements may not be be expe&ed from a people who are so fact
progrefling into habits of order, economy and justice! This is
the more pleasing to the philosophic mind, as this reformation ia
your affairs is effe&ed by the free consent of the people at large.
There is no force or deception in the matter. The citizens of
the United States, having experienced most bitterly the effe&s of
a want of public credit, and of deranged finances, come forward
voluntarily and enter into arrangements to bind themselves to be
honest and virtuous. It is a noble triumph of reason over error.
It refle&s the highest honor on your country, and if this spirit
of reformation can be kept alive till your public credit is effectu
ally established, your nation will be held up as a model to all the
world. The name of America will found gratefully in the ears
of every philosopher on earth.
" The approaching session of your Legislature will be an inter
cfting one. From the measures then to be adopted, your govern
ment must takeits chara&er. The executive officers will no doubt
faithfully collect information relative to their different depart
ments ; and I prcfume the Legislature will weigh with candor,
the plans that may be suggested. The greatest danger to be ap
prehended in your public affairs, is ajealoufy between the differ
ent branches of government. I could preceive by the debates that
the representatives were not free from a suspicion, that the execu
tive officers would establish too powerful an influence. It is very
certain that men of abilities and re&itude will have influence in
whatever department they are placed. This circumstance should
not create so much jealousy as to prevent men of talents from ac
quiring confidence, and promoting the public good bv their ex
ertions. All men in office should be controuled by certain checks
that are interwoven in the institutions, under which they a6l; but
it will always be found that a temper of suspicion indulged by
individuals against public charaders ; or by one branch of the
government against the other, will impede public business and be
attended with no ufeful consequence."
NEW-YORK, FEBRUARY 10.
Yesterday the President of the United States was pleased to no
minate, and by, and with the advice and consent of the Senate to
appoint the following persons to office in the State of N. Carolina.
Wilmington, James Ready Collector.
John Walker, Naval Officer.
Thomas Callender, Surveyor.
Newbern, Jfobn Daves, Collector.
Beaufort, John Eaflon, Surveyor.
Washington, Nathan Keais, Collector.
En en ton District.
Edenton, Thomas Benbury, Collector.
Hertford, Joshua Skinner, jun. 'Surveyor.
Murfreefboro, Hardy Murfree, Surveyor.
Plymouth. Levi Blount, Surveyor.
Skewarkoy, Henry Hunter, Surveyor.
Wynton, William Wynns, Surveyor,
Bennets Creek, John Baker, Surveyor.
Camden District.
Plank Bridge, on Sawyers Creek, Isaac Gregory, Colle&or.
Nixonton, Hugh Knox, Surveyor.
Indian-Town, Thomas Williams, Surveyor.
Pafquotank River Bridge, Edmund Sauyer, Surveyor.
Ncwbiggin Creek, Elias Albertfon, Surveyor.
FROM CORRESPONDENTS.
It was made an obje&ion to the new Constitution, that the elec
tions of Representatives should be biennial; but happy will it be
for our country, if we do not find that that period is too short.
To ensure their future ele&ion is often found the influencing mo
tive of condutl to too many in the last session of an existing Legi
slature : Hence that independency of spirit, that sacred regard to
truth, that inflexible adherence to the best measures, popular or
unpopular, which distinguish the real patriot, are seldom found to
govern thedecifions of those, who feel conscious that fortuitous
concurrence of circumstances, and not merit, has made them the
obje£ta of the people's fuffrage in times past.
The principle of responsibility has a very powerful operation
with such characters, when they are about to revert to the mass of
the people ; but what kind of responsibility is it ? Not to account
for the free and independent exercise of their own judgment, 011
the important fubjefts of deliberation in the Legislature ; but to
fatisfy their particular constituents, that they have made it theic
study to fulfil the particular wishes of their creators. Hence the
people ! the people! is often the burden of the fongto those who never
gave any other evidence of their patriotism but a prostitution o£
every piinciple of honor at the fhrineof popularity.
I remember to have heard an old veteran in the cause of free
dom fay, he always fufpe&cd the honeftv of that man's principles,
who is so devilifk peopleifh : For certain it is, that those Legislators
who are only solicitous to please the present humors of the people,
must often advocate measures subversive of their essential rights.
If Legislators are to be considered as the guardians of the pub
lic liberty, it necessarily follows, that as communities, as well as
individuals are liable to infatuation, the upright patriot muftftem
the popular impulse on fuchoccafions, tho he will thereby render
himfelf odious for a time.
On Monday the Grand Jury for the United States of this dijlri£l,gave
a very elegant entertainment to the Chief, Ajjociate, and DiflriEl Judges*
The Attorney General and the officers of the Supreme and Di/lriaCourts,
at Fraunce's Tavern in Courtlandt-Street. The liberality dif played on
this occasion and the good order and harmony whichprejidcd gave particu
lar fatisfattion to the refpettable guejls. After dinner the following
toafls uare drank.
1. The President of the United-States of America.
2. The Vice President of the United-States of America.
3. The National Judiciary. 4. The Senate of the United-States,.
5. The Speaker and House of Representatives of the United States.
6. The late National Convention.
7. The Constitution of our Country : may it prove the solid Fabric k vf
American liberty, Prosperity and Glory.
8. The Memory of those Heroes who fell in the defence of the Liberties
of America.
9. His mojl Chriflian Majefly and the People of France.
10. Their High MightmeJJes the States General of the United Nether
lands.
11. The friendly powers of Europe and thefriends of liberty through
out the Globe.
12. May the blessings of peace be long the happy lot of our Country,
and every Citizenof America, feel himfelf deeply interested, in the due
execution of the laws of the Union.
13. The Convention of Rhode-Iflard. May their wisdom and inte
grity soon introduce our firay filler to her flation in the happy national
family of America.