Gazette of the United-States. (New-York [N.Y.]) 1789-1793, September 23, 1789, Page 186, Image 2
sum proposed in the bill is- so much beyond all ex ample in any of the States, as will be considered beyond the abilities of the people. The grants we have already made,are in gene ral so high, and will excite so much unealinefs, that I was in hopes that we ihould nbt have pro ceeded one step further in that line of policy. I nope, Sir, the motion will obtain. Mr. Benson urged the neceflity of an ample allowance, in order to command the firlt abilities. He said, there is no doubt, but plenty of candi dates may be found who would serve lor 1500 dol lars, or a less sum. Instances maybe mentioned of persons offering to serve as Governor in some of the States, for 500 dollars : But if it is intended to have the office refpecftable by its being filled with competent abilities—'a less sum than that proposed will not be found adequate. Mr. Ames observed, that he had frequently heard in the House abitracft reasonings upon the fubjett of salaries and compensations : But for my part (said lie) 1 think such reasonings have very little to do in the bufhiefs. The only en quiry is, what sum is neceflary to command the firft abilities in the refpecftive States.—The gen tlemen fjom various quarters cdn determine with a good degree of precision, for tliemfelves. I think I can speak for the four New-England State.*, —andfuppofe that 1500 dollars per annum for this officer, wotild be an object to excite the attention of men of the firftabilities in those States. Gentlemen may be found who would make the greatelt exertions to qualify themselves for the o(:ice.—l hope, Sir, the motion for ftrikino; out the sum will obtain. Mr. Liver more and Mr. White spoke next, and were both in favor offtrikingout 4Joo. Mr. Vising advocated the sum in the report. He stated the amount <;f the whole expence to be incurred; and contrasted it with the benefits to bederived to tli* United States, from the inlKtu tion. Tiie object, said he, is to attract and com mand the firft abilities. There are many gen tlemen in the practice of law, whose abilities command a greater income than 3000 dollars per annum. Can it be expected that such persons will relinquish their lucrative profeffions merely for the honor of serving the United States? It cannot be expected—and yet Sir, I presume the very firlt abilities are the object to be obtained. Mr. Gerry was in favor of the motion. He went into a cfonflderation of the debts, taxes and burthens of the people ; from thence urged the neceflity ofthe utinolt prudence and economy in our expenditures and appropriations. He refer red to the situation of Great Britain, and contrail-' ing our circumttances with theirs, he said the sa lary of the Chief Justice ought to be about 4001. sterling. He referred to what had been said refpec'ting the incomes of lawyers, and observed that he believed wherethere is one that gets 3000 dollars a year by his practice, there are twenty who do not get one third of that sum. I con ceive, said he, that a much less sum than that proposed will command the firlt abilities upon the continent. Mr. Jackson said he dU4 not doubt the truth of what the gentleman said refpecfting lawyers ; but I wquW ask, said he, if the Judges of the Su preme Court of the United States are to be taken from the lowfcft class of lawyers ? There is no doubt but that Judges may be obtained for jool. but what kind of law—what decisions will you get from such judges ? There are lawyers in some of the States, who make from 1500 to 2000 guineas a year by their great abilities : Will such men re linqni/li their emoluments for the honor of serving the United States? I have received accounts from the southward by which 1 find that gentlemen are declining Public appointments 011 account of the fmallnefs of the Jalaries. We ought to conlider the great importance of this officer—that the lives, the pro perties and rights of the citizens are to depend 011 his decisions—that the disputes between the dif ferent States are to he finally fettled in this court —that the preservation of the Constitution ofthe United States and of the individual States de pends in a 2;reat measure 011 the wisdom, impar tiality and independency of this officer ; and in cases of impeachment, the President of the Uni ted States is to be tried by him—all the great appeals, and matters of treaty, Sic. From these considerations, the firft abilities ffiould be procured—an ample and generous allowance ought to be given, so that every possible induce ment to an undue bias and influence may be taken away. Mr. Page spake againtl low salaries. Among many other observations he said, that it; had been considered by many, that low salaries were re publican : But I am of a different opinion: It will be found that low salaries are anti-republi cat) ; and rlist if you reduce your officers to a feanty allowance, you depreciate the government you have eltabliflied. Mr. S ,iith (S. C.) was opposed to a reduction of the sum. He adverted to the circumstance of railing ths salaries of the judges in England at the accefCon of theprefent King : From the idea of rendering thent more independent than they had been. He then itated the amount of their falarias, and thefituation of people hi that coun try in refpetft to public burdens. He then referedto the salaries of the Judges in several of the States ; and pointed out the pro portion of expence which the judiciary of the State of South Carolina bore to the amount of their whole civil lift, and made it one third, whereas the judiciary of the United States would not amount to one eighth. He then urged the neceftity of holding out such inducements as would influence the firft abilities to accept of the appoint ment : He urged the importance of making the Judges independent: He considered the judicial department as the sheet anchor of the Conftitu tion— A department of the firft consequence to the Uniort—A department which in all civilized countries is placed in an eligible and independ ent situation. Mr.Madison, after recapitulating theobferv ations refpe<fting the firft abilities, laid, that it ought to be coniidered, that these Judges must make a new acquisition of legal knowledge.— 1 hey must have a familiar acquaintance with the laws of every State.—They muftunderftand the nature of treaties, and especially the treaties now subsisting hetwen these States and foreign countries, &c—These studies willabforba great deal of their time. When we conlidcr the duties that will de volve upon them, they strike the mind as being of the greatest magnitude.—They are the guar? dians of the Laws tind of the Conftkution of the United States—and I trust of the individual States also. When we consider the great and important causes, in which opulent individuals will be par ties, that are to come under their cognizance, we must be struck with the propriety of shielding thele Judges from all poflible aflaults of tempta tion.—To these if we add important cases of treaties, in which the greatest interests will be involved, the idea will receive additional force. Upon the whole considering the circumstances of the people, I (hall disagree to the sum proposed by the committee, but at the fame time 1 fliall not agree to the proposed reduction. Mr. Stone, Mr. Gerry and Mr. Jackson ad ded some few observations—when the question for ftrikingout 45*00 was carried, and 4000 being proposed for insertion was also carried, 27 to 24. Every article in this bill was opposed and ad vocated upon the foregoing, or ftmilar princi ples. SATURDAY, SEPT. 19. The House took iy> the report qf the commit, tee of the whole 011 the Bill to establish the salaries of the judicial department. The salaries report ed were severally confirmed, except the salary of the Chief Justice, which was reduced to 3500 dol lars, and the Diftriift Judgeof Georgia, from 1600 to 1500 dollars. The salary of the District Judge of Kentucky was increased from 800 to 1000 dol lars, and the Attorney General reduced from 2000 to 1 500. hi going through the report Mr. White, mov ed that it (liould be so amended as to fix the salary of the Diftrkt Judge of Maflachufetts at 1000 dol lars. He observed that this was not intended to affect Massachusetts alone, but to operate through the whole system ; if he succeeded in that motion he should make a similar one with regard to the other States. 1 hat the Judiciary system was re garded by the people with a more jealous eye than any other part of the Constitution ; that he conceived it both unjust and impolitic to give the Diftritf: Judges higher salaries than the fudges of the several States : Unjust, because their duties would not be so burdensome ; and impolitic be cause it would degrade the State Judiciaries by placing a subordinate federal judge in a more ex alted or more eligible situation than the State Judges. That 1000 dollars being the salaries of the Judges in Maflachufetts and Virginia, lie sup posed it might be nearly the average throughout the continent. Mr. White observed that he had never called for the yeas and nays—that he had endeavored to ftifle the practice in its birth ; but being then over ruled, and the lneaftire having been adopted on numberless important fubietfls lie hoped he lhould be indulged. The motion for the yeas and nays was over ruled. The question being put on the proposed amendment to the re port ol the committee, was negatived. The Secretary of the Treasury, purfuantto the order of the House of the rytli inft. reported an estimate of the funis requisite to be appropriated during the present session of Congrels, towards defraying the expences of the civil lift, and of the department of War, to the end of the present yeai, and tor fatisfvirtgfuch warrants as have been drawn by the late Board of Treasury, which vet remain unpaid. J A meflkge was received from the Senate, accom panying a bill for regulating the process in the court of the United States. Refered to a com hiittee or the whole on Monday. Also the Jud, c i a i bill, in which the Senate had cyncured with leveral of the amendments propo sed by the House, and disagreed to others The House proceeded to consider the amend ments made by the Senate to the bill for amend- ingthe Constitution of the United Statu t of which they negatived, and others they cm, 6 ed in ; but not having time to <*o rhL l r " fame, a djourned. g ° throu gh the MONDAY/ SEPT. 21 Those amendments to the Judiciary bill • which the Senate had not concured Were i up, and the House receded from the fame) agreed with the Senate. ' a " l ' The report of the Secretary of the Tread™, was read, and refered to a committee con si r, 7 of Mr. W. V „r, K M (S . C .)M, The amendments of the Senate to the anS' ments proposed by the House to the Conftitn,;! were again taken up-Some were agreed to a ,!i others nonconcured : Meflrs M a <J,j on> Sk/* and Vtnmg were appointed a committee to confix with a committee of the Senate on those amen ments in which the two Houfesdo not agree Mr. Jackson moved that leave be e i Vfnt . bring in a bill to alter the time fixed for the a, nual meeting of Congress. This motion after a bill" W3S Cal " rie<1 ' a " d leave S' ven tu bring in ™e, H °ufe then proceeded in the difcuffionof the Bill for hxing the temporary and permanent leatoi the government. Mr. Madison objected to that clause of the bill which provides, that New-York (hall be the ten porary residence : He said, it is contrary to the Constitution—as it deprives the two Houfesof i lie power to exercise a right expressly vested in them by the Constitution-, of adjourning without the consent of the Supreme Executive": Should the clause remain, this bye law must be repealed to which the consent of The President must be obtained before the two Houses could adjourn; He moved tlierefore that the clause fhouldbe Itruck out. Mr. Lawrance and Mr. Ames, replied to Mr. Madison : They contended that the consent of i he President is neceflary to every act of theLe and that the objection applied withe Hual force against a permanent as against a tem porary eftablifliment of the feat of government. Mr. Lee, and Mr. Boudinot supported the fentiinent of Mr. Madison—and Mr. Jackson, and Air. Smith spake in opposition to it: The vote being taken for striking out the words, it palled in the negative. Mi*. Madison then movad to strike out the word " permanent" as it was not a term made nfe of in the Conftitufcion. This motion was nega tived. It was then ordered, That the bill be engrofled for a third reading to-morrow. A meflage was received from the Senate,inform ing that they had concurred in the bill forefta blidling the salaries of the Judicial department ivith amendments. The amendments were to raise the salary of the Chief Justice from 3?oo to 4000 dollars—the salaries of the Alfociate Judges of the Supreme Court from qoooto isoo —that of the Judgeofthe DiftriiSt of Maine from 800 to 1000—and that of the Attorney General from 1500102000. The House agreed to these amendments, except the iaft. A refelution was received from the Senate,that it be recommended to the several States to pass laws to make it flie duty of the keepers of their leveral goals, to receive, and keep therein per sons commited under the authority of the United States, until they be discharged by due courfeof law. The Unitfed States to pay jo cents amonth, for each person confined, and likewise to support all perfoiis commited thereto for offences against the United States. Mr. Wadsworth, from the committee on the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, brought in a bill, by which appropriations are made tor defraying of the expences of the civil lift, thede partment of war, for warrants ifliied by the late Seperintendantof Finance, for warrants ifluedhy Ihe late Board of Treasury, and to pay the inva lid pensioners. This bill was read a firft and second time, and committed to a committee of the whole to be ta ken up to-morrow. The report on the petition of the Baron df Glaubeck, was agreed to, allowing him fifteen months pay as a Captain in the late Continenta Army. A meflage was received from the Senate, th Jt they had receded from the amendment for rat - ing the salary of the Attorney General, an had appointed a committee of conference on t if difagreeiug votes of the Houses on the auien ments to the Constitution. . On motion of Mr. Vining the report oft committee on the petition of the public creditor* was taken up and agreed to. On morion of Mr. Gerry, the House refolded, that the Secretary of the Treasury be aire to apply to the Supreme Executives of rh e el , ral States for the state of their public debts, the funds appropriated for the difchargeo principal and interest of the fame ; an, anioiint of the loan-office and other fectintic the State Treasuries. A djourned.