Gazette of the United-States. (New-York [N.Y.]) 1789-1793, September 09, 1789, Page 170, Image 2

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    the United States, which is not committed against
the individual States, and added, bonds given to
the Judges of the Supreme Court, and debts due
to foreigners, I believe, may be sued for in any
of the State Courts. I think the inconveniencies
which will attend these courts Irave been ex
He then cited some instances to shew that these
difficulties could not be argued from past expe
rience—there are no instances in point.
In cafe of a man's being committed to a State
goal, the State would not grant a writ of habeas
corpus to convey the man to the goal of the Uni
ted States—and this would apply also to property.
He then traced the eff'eds of this clashing of the
judicial powers to a rencontre between the two
potfe commitatx, till murder was committed on
both fides : In which cafe, said he, you mult liane
on both fides.
He then pointed out the advantages that fo
reigners would have over the citizens : A citizen
can now get his money in three years, with an
interest of 5P 1 "- cent, but in these courts, foreign
ers can get their debts in one. year, with an in
terest of 7 or 8 pr. cent.
From the foregoing I conceive, that this system
cannot be agreeable to the people : This must
suppose a revolution in the principles of their
representative aflemblies.
I do not think this the proper time to establish
these courts : It is a measure 011 which the af
fection and attachment of the people to the Con
ftitution will be diked : I think it bell to defer
the bufinel's till the neceflity for these courts shall
become apparent : I could therefore wish that the
power should be reserved for the occasion, and
that nothing fhtfuld be done the present session
but what is absolutely necellary.
I am for this government's moving as silent as
death that the people fliould not perceive the
least alteration in their situation * The exercise
of this power will be the most odious that can be
exercifed—for as a gentleman has said, of all the
wheels in the machine of government, the Judi
cial is the moftdifagreeable.
Mr. Gerry was opposed to the motion for
ftnking out the clause, and entered into a consi
deration of the confirmations of the several State
Judiciaries, by which, he said, that it is expressly
against the Constitution to invest the Judges of
the State Courts with authority to take cognizance
of federal acftions—That the Legislature of the
Union being bound by oath to support and ad
lninifter the Constitution—they are consequently
bound to establish these courts to carry their laws
into operation : As to the difficulties which tren
tleinen had contended will arise from the cfafli
ing of the two judicatories, these difficulties may
be obviated, and a little experience will lead to
the most ample provision to that point.
Mr. Sumpter said, he did not dispute the right
of Congress to exercise this authority ; but he
doubted the expediency at the present time.
Mr. Burke rose to enquire of the gentleman
who made the motion, whether he meant by it
to knock up the bill altogether, or to offer a fub
ftitute—for if he meant to knock the bill entire
ly away, he would most heartily join hiin—as I
conceive, said he, that the bill is founded in de
ception : It is calculated to mislead the people,
for under a shew of justice, it will deprive them
of their rights and privileges—l am therefore for
knocking the whole of it away entirely.
Mr. Livermore said that was his intention.
His motion was however, as before stated, ne
gatived by a large majority.
Subflana »/ Mr. Laurance's SPEECH on the
I inuft confefs the fubjecft is of a nature not al
together agreeable, because ifmembers for whom
we have a personal eftcem, should be excluded
from a feat, the event would be attended with
feelings of regret 011 our part. But I think it
neceflary that, we should express freely our real
sentiments. The Constitution has givei/this body
a right to judge of the elections, qualifications,
and returns of its members, though the mode of
their election in the firft instance lias been refer
ed to the laws of the several States. It is the bu
siness of this house, therefore, to determine
whether the election of the fitting Members has
been conformable to the law which was enacled
for that purpose. I presume this will be the
question. If it has been agreeable to the law, it
will be the duty of this house to make the decla
ration. If it has not, the house must declare the
election invalid.
she law of New Jersey declares that the elec
tion of the members shall be in the fame manner,
and under the fame regulations as the election of
representatives for the Legislature of the State.
It is neceflarv therefore to enquire what was that
mode from which we are to conclude refpec r ting
this election. The law relative to the election
of representatives in the State Aftembly fixes no
time of limitation for giving in the votes and de
claring the election ; but the practice under that
law has ever been to declare the returns of the
eleftecl, previous to the meeting of the Legisla
ture. The late law had evident refpecfl to the
time at which Congress were to meet. By reason ■
able conftrucftion, therefore, we mull conclude,
that the intention of the law was, that the elec
tion should be declared before the day appointed
for the aflembling of the Congress. This is plain
when we consider the uniform practice of thei>tate.
It may be asked further, what was the sense ot
the people of New-Jersey on the fubjedt. It ap
peal's that a majority of the counties in Jersey did
actually close their polls, and make the returns
previous to the 4th of March. If we are to rea
son therefore from the conduct of a majority of
the State, we may conclude that their opinion
was agreeable to this construction. It appears
also the governor gave this construction. This
appears from his letter to the members of the
council, requesting thdir attendance on the third
of March, as he expetSted on that day the whole
election-returns. He knew what reason he had
to expert it. If he had not supposed it material,
he was not obliged to summon theni on that day.
It is clear tome from these circumstances that the
election ought to have been declared 011 the third
of March, and that the authority of the Gover
nor expired with that day. If we admit a con
trary supposition, thathehada continuing autho
rity, it would lead to abuses. If he might extend
it a day, he might protract it a month, or to an
unlimited time. It might defeat the election, or
it might put it in the power of the Governor to
determine who should be the fitting members :—
In short it would put the law in the power of 1 the
Governor ; but it never can be rationally contend
ed that the law Ihould have an operation which
may defeat the delign of it, or be committed to
adifcretion, which may produce the fame efiedt.
But admiting that the Governor's authority was
not expended, and that he had a right to delay,
it becomes a question, to what time he Ihould ex
tend this delay. It appears from theclaufeinthe
law which confers the power on the Governor,
that he is obliged to determine from the greatej.
number of votes oj the whole State, The inference
from this w ill be, that the Governor and Council
were to wait till they had received all the votes
from all the counties. But it may be said that
this would put it in the power of a single county
to defeat the law. Admitted—Whole fault is it >
If the State would pass a law putting it in the pow
er of a county to defeat the law, the State must
fufFer the consequences. The time fixed by the
Governor for the second meeting of the council
was arbitrary.
From tliefe considerations, I think it must re
sult, that the election of the present members
from New-Jersey was not conformable to the law,
and therefore not valid. [daily adv.]
Debate on the fubjell of fixing the PERMANENT
Mr. Lee rose and observed, that the House are
called 011 to deliberate 011 a great national ques
tion ; and I hope, said he, they will difculs and
decide 011 it with that difpaflionate deliberation,
which its magnitude requires. He then proposed
the following resolution : " Whereas the peo
ple of the United States have aflented to, and rati
fied a Constitution for their government, to pro
vide for their defence against foreign danger, to
secure their perpetual union, and doineftic tian,
quility, and to promoLe their common interests ;
and all these great objects will be belt effected by
eftablifhnig the permanent feat of government
111 a ltation as nearly central as a convenient wa
ter communication with the Atlantic Ocean, and
an easy access to the Western Territory will per
mit ; and as it will be fatisfactory to the people
ofthe United States, and give them a firm confi
dence,lll the justice and wisdom of their govern
ment, to be aflured that such a station is already
in the contemplation of Congress, and that proper
meafureswill be taken to afcertainit,and to provide
neceflary accommodations, as soon as the in
difpenfible arrangements for carrying into effect
the Constitution can be made, and the circum
stances of the United States will permit ; " Re
solve 1, that a place as nearly central, as a conve
nient water communication with the Atlantic
Ocean, and an easy access to the Western Terri
tory will permit, ought to be selected and esta
blished as the permanent feat of the government
of the United States."
I wish the principles of the government to be
recognized, that the people of the United States
may be able to judge whether, in the measures
about to be adopted, they are carried into exe
cution by this House. If these great principles
are not preserved, it will be an unhappy fulfil
ment olthofe predictions, which have been made
by the opponents of the Constitution, that the
generalintereft of America would not be consult
ed thatpartiaimeafureswould be purfued,andthat
mfteadol being influenced byla general policy di
rected to the good of the whole, one part ofthe
Union would be deprefled and trampled on to
benefit and exalt the other. Instead of accom
pl.fhing and realising those bright profpecfts
which shone upon us in the dawn of our go vein
wr<l'!lT fl l W u lch our P atriocs fought ami bled,
we shall find the whole to be a visionary fancy.
mytelf, that before the House decides
on the question before them tW„ .
will be recognized, if it is meant that
be regarded. tlle yiiiobl]
Mr Hartley fuported the motion of
Goodhue, and pointed out Wright's f P ,-, lVlr -
Sufquehanna, as an eligible place
government.—This I consider i : iid h of
middle ground between the De'lawa, aS / he
might be supposed a northern objedi ! ' K '' l
towmac on the south.-He went laA, - Pa
djfplay of the natural and and artificial^a/™ 0 a
ges which this place prelented ; i ts
easy communication with the Weile>-„ r"' " 5
and the Atlantic, its extreme fertility , OUIUI 7
ty of the climate, and its abundantpopE'"
Mr. Sedgwick: I hope, Sir, than lit • "
of Mr. Lee will 110t obtain. 'The" ,!" 0 " 0 "
who moved the other day to have this &
brought on tins felhon, can not fail to recoiled
that tliey were called on and intreated tn I r
this bufinels. They were told that £ va
the time, consistently with the real g 00( l 0 f °
country, to determine the permanent rcfidencl
of Congress. They were told that the £ove rn
ment was not yet in operation-fhat the union
was not yet complete— yet that gentleman par
t.cularly and the majority ot the House f u L.
r • . fuf P endl »g it would occafron so muchTf
fatisfacftionand agitation, that the peaceandhan"
pinefs ot the country required a speedy deaf.™'
As my own and other gentlemen's renionftranc-i
provedl ineffectual, and it was resolved to brin!
the bufinels oil immediately, I am now ready to
meet the gentlemen, prepared to decide unoi.
the important fubjeft.- 1 shall oppose the mod
on ot Mr. Lee, because it involves unnecefftry
Mr. Tucker reprobated the motion of Mr
Lee. He wished to know what gentlemen were
going about.—lt seemed to him that the propofi.
tion was a preamble : Was it customary to agree
to a preamble before thefubftance of arefolution
was determined on > No—The regular way was
tirlt to agree to the substance then to the preamble.
Mr. Lee allured Mr. Tucker that fair dealing
was his objetfl. He wiflied to bring forward thole
considerations which ought to guide their judg
ment. A question is to be decided which involves
present and future interells, and extends to re
mote generations. The question is to be fettled,
which mult determine whether the government
is to exist forages, or be dispersed anion* the
contending winds.—Will gentlemen fay,"that
these principles ought not to be recognized?
Will gentlemen fay that the centre of go
vernment should not be the centre of the Union
Shall it not be in a situation which will admit of
an ealy communicacion to the ocean ? Will they
fay that ourweftern brethren are to be disregard
ed ? These are the momentous conliderations
which should lead the House to a conclusion. If
they arc disregarded it will be an alarming cir
cumstance to the people of the southern States.
I hey have felt these alarms already. It was
with difficulty on another occasion that their up*
prehensions onthis score were silenced, and their
difficulties surmounted. If this queflic nis deci
ded without regarding these interells, it will be
said that a Congress is found, who are not dispo
sed to recognize the general principles of the go
vernment. I have come forward, he said, with
such explicit propositions as the interest of ray
country dictates. Some principles ought to be
previously established as a guide, as a polar liar to
direift the House to just conclusions.
Mr. Madison asked if the motion of his col
league could be fuppofedout of order. Hefub
mited that to the chair; does it contain any
thing, said he, which is not true ? I appeal to the
candid judgment of the committee. Are the
truths contained in the proposition inapplicable
to the fubjeel ? I appeal to the justice and policy
of the people of the United States. The pa
fition is strictly in order. Is it improper or inap
plicable to declare the principles which ought to
govern on this question, and which are properly
prefixed to the motion that lies 011 the table ?
Mr. Ames said—l am at a loss to conceive why
the gentlemen from Virginia are so agitated and
anxious to press the fubjetft of these refolutious.
The gentleman has asked, Is there any thing
contained in the proposition which is not true!
Is there any thing not applicable to the fnbjeft.
And by way of conclusion, asks whether the reso
lution shall not therefore pass ? But is such a con
clusion neceflary to these premises : If they are
true, why be so solicitous ? Does truth acquire
any new authority by being frequently voted'
If they are truths, will not thole truths guide
us ? But 1 have, he said, another difficulty- »
the House should vote these propositions, the
gentleman may bring forward other abstract
queflions without limitation, and supported by
the fame arguments ; and may then ask, arethe's
things true ? Are not these things applic a^' e .
And in this way the House will have upon their
journals all the arguments which can arifeouto
this multifarious fubjetft.—But is there any >' e
ceffity for it ? Will it not embarrass thecoma" 1 '
tee ! It is not our business, he said, to fyl'og lze
upon abllracT: principles, like school logic| aI,s >
but to fettle facfts. I infill that if the princip' f>