fciture Indian affairs, I have been silent upon
this occasion—but, Sir, it is because I have no
opinion of Indian treaties—and I hope that if
we vote any sum more than fufficient to support
the Commilfioners, and feed the Indians, while
the treaty is holding, that it will be embezzled ;
for I consider it as the worst kind of policy, to
spend a large sum of money in making presents
to those savages ; it never produces any solid ad
vantages, but constantly thereverfe. The Indi
ans have reduced war and treaties to a system of
commerce and traffic. By giving them presents,
we make them strong to fall upon our defence
lels frontiers ; and it has often been found to be
the cafe, that the arms and ammunition which
they have i-eceived at a treaty of peace, have
been employed to the deftrucftion of the donors :
the fuin of 20000 dollars, I think, will be large
enough.—l hope we lhall concur with the senate.
Mr. Moore was in sentiment with Mr. Scot ;
he reprobated the system which had been adhered
to, of making presents to the Indians.
Mr. Baldwin said, in anfvver to Mr. Scot,
that the gentleman's observations are of a general
nature; the fuperintendant of Indian affairs, and
the secretary at war has made a statement, and
it is to be supposed upon the belt information he
can obtain ; if this is defective, if it is too much,
let the particulars be pointed out in which the
excess lies : His eltimate states that 25000 dol
lars arc requisite for holding treaties with the
southern tribes; if this provision is intended to
defray the expences of holding treaties with both
northern and southern Indians, it appears demon
llrable, that we shall fail for want of the means
of effecting our objedt, in both.
Mr. Sumpter observed that the number on
which the estimate is founded arose from mifin
formation : So large a number is not neceflary :
such a number will not be allembled ; they can
not be provided for, they would run a rilk of
fuffering very much : I have no doubt Sir, that the
business may be well done without aflembling
such a number, and it will be well done if we do
not make too large provision. I hope we lhall
support the dignity of the United States, and let
those Indians know that treaties in future shall
not be violated with impunity ; that we will treat
with them upon generous and reciprocal terms ;
that while we guard them from depredations from
our frontiers, they shall ftriiflly observe the stipu
lations on their part. Some trifling presents may
be neceflary, the custom is of long standing ; but
extravagant and protufe presents I am opposed
to; they are unnecessary. The sum of 20000 dol
lars, I think will be fufficient.
Mr. Baldwin's motion being put, was nega
tived.
The amendment of the senate was then agreed
to. sfdjourned.
SATURDAY, AUGUST 22.
Several petitions were read and laid on the table.
Representations from the citizens of Trenton,
in New-Jersey, York-Town, and Lancaster, in
Pennfylvania,were presented to the Houfe,Hating
the advantages they poflefs in foil, climate, litua
tion, population, cultivation and buildings ; and
proffering their refpedtive towns with the cir
cumjacent territory, of ten miles, to Congress,
for the permanent feat of the federal government.
The amendments to the Constitution as al
tered and agreed to by the House, were read.
Mr. Tucker then proposed the following a
mendment in substance : That Congress shall not
exercise the power of levying diredt taxes, except
in cases where any of the States shall refufe, or
neglect to comply with their requisitions.
Mr. Page said, although I \Vifli the way may
be always open for every member of this house
to propose amendments to the Constitution—yet
as the business is so far completed with refpettto
the report of the committee, I think it will be belt
to proceed and finifh this report, and in the mean
time refer this to the select committee of eleven.
Mr. Tucker : I hope, Sir, the proposition will
be attended to at the present time—as the house
is upon the fubjecfl, and considerable progress is
made, this amendment may be added with ease,
if it should be agreed to—l think it best to finifh
the whole business now Congress has it before
them.
Me. Jackson opposed the proposition : Ihope,
Sir, that the experience we have had will be fuf
ficient to prevent Congress ever divesting them
selves of this power —This experience forcibly
points out the impropriety of adopting this amend
ment—requisitions upon several States it is well
known, tho made several years since, remain un
complied with to this day ; and no inducements
in future can ever be supposed to be fufficiently
operative, to induce so universal a compliance
with requisitions, as to secure the public gofcd,
if a fenie of common danger, war, and the facili
ty of payment in a paper medium were not fuffi
cient to do it : But this plan of requisitions is preg
nant with difficulties of various kinds—it will ex
cite jealousies—insurrections—and civil war, dis
solve the Union, and expose us to the contempt and
invasion of foreign powers : For if this power is
taken from Congress, you divert the United States
ef the means of protecting the Union, or provid
injr for the exigence and continuation of the go
vernment. .
Mr. Livermore fupporied the motion: He
said, it is more important than all that has been
agreed to : This is an amendment to some pur
pose, and which a number of the States have par
ticularly called for : Without some to more pur -
pose is held out to the people, that I have the ho
nor to reprefent,they will conlider tliefe as a mere
mufketo bite—they will not give a pinch of fnuff
for them all.
Mr. Page observed, that this proposition is one
about which the warmed friends to amendments
have differed in opinion : Some of them have en
tirely ceased urging it, and others have become
the molt strenuous advocates for the reverse ; and
now fay that the government ought never to give
up this power : For my part, experience has fully
evinced that no dependence can be placed upon
requifmons : If in a time of war, and when we
made paper money by hogsheads full, they were
disregarded, I have no expectation that any de
pendence in future can be placed in tliem—l lhall
therefore be against the proposition.
Mr. Gerry moved, that it be referred to a fe
lecft committee.
Mr. Tucker objected to this motion, he said
the fubjeft of amendments is still open—as the
report of the committee is not yet completed.
Mr. Gerry advocated the object ofthemotion ;
but he did not think that object fully compre
hended in the motion now before the house : He
then entered into a general difcuflion ofthequef
tion, and pointed out the consequences of the ex
ercise of this power by the general government,
as involving the annihilation of the State govern
ments.
Mr. Tucker: I do not fee the arguments in fa
vour of giving Congress this power info strong a
light as some gentlemen do: It will be to erect
an iviperium in imperio ; which is always consi
dered as subversive of all government. When
ever Congress ihall exercile this power, it will
raise commotions intlieftates; whereas the mode
of requisitions will operate in such an easy way,
by being consonant to the habits of the people,
that the supplies will be sooner realized into the
public treasury in this, than by the other mode.
Much time must be spent in forming a uniform
fyftcm of taxation, which lhall operate equally
and justly through all the States, if it is poifible
to form such a fyltem.—lt is said that requisitions
have not been complied with in former times ; but
it is to be expected that there will not be so much
difficulty in future. The requisitions will be great
ly diiniiiifhed by reason of the supplies from the
impost; besides, should any of the States not
comply, they will in that cafe be liable to the ex
ercile of the power of Congress in the very heart
of such States as are delinquent ; this power
would be so disagreeable, that the dread of it
would ferveto stimulate the States to an immedi
ate and prompt compliance with the requisitions.
This amendment is proposed by several of the
States, and foine of the moil important ; and for
this, and other reasons which have been offered,
I hope the amendment will be adopted.
Several methods of disposing of this question
for the present were propofed,but the motion for
its lying 011 the table being put and negatived,
Mr. Partridge, referring to his inftrmtions,
was solicitous that this amendment should not be
too suddenly decided upon, moved the previous
question, which was negatived.
Mr. Sedgwick observed, that he believed he
felt the force of the instructions from his constitu
ents which they ought to have upon his mind,
and to as great a degree as other gentlemen ; but
Sir, said lie, a government entrusted with the
freedom, and the very existence of the people,
ought surely to poflefs, in the 1110 ft ample manner,
the means of supporting its own existence ; and
as we do not know whatcircumftances we may be
in, nor how neceflary it may be for Congress to
exercise this power, I should think it a violation
of the oath I have taken to support this constitu
tion, were I now to vote for this amendment.
Mr. Sherman observed that if congress should
exercise this power, the taxes would be laid by
the immediate representatives of the people ; nor
would there be any necefiity for adopting one u
niform method of collecting direct taxes : The
several states may be accommodatcd by a refer
ence to their respective modes of taxation.
The question upon the paragraph being called
for from all parts of the house, the ayes and noes
stand thus :
' AYES.
Mejfrs. Burke--Coles—Floyd—Grout— Hathorn
—Livermore—Van Pianfelaer—Suinpter—Tucker
—9-
NOES.
Messrs. Ames—Benfon—Brown—Cadwallader
—Carroll- -Clymer—Fitzfimons—Fofter—Gale
—Gerry—Gilman—Goodhue--Hartley---Heifter
—Jackfon—Laurance—Lee—Madifon—Mat-
thews—Moore—Muhlenberg—Page Parker
Partridge—Sliureman— Scott—Sedgwick Seney
—Sherman—Sylvefter—Sinnickfon— Smith (M)
—Smith (S. C.) —Stone—Sturges— Thatcher—
Tru yibul]—Vining—W ad fwortli 39.
Mi. 1 ucKEßthcn proposed some other amend
mcnts, from tliofe proposed by tlic state of South.
Carolina ; which were severally negatived.
Mr. Gerry proposed the two following,vi z __
Congress shall not eftablifhany company or com
panies of merchants with exclusive privileges!!
The other to prohibit the officers of the general
government from accepting any title of nubility
from any foreign power. Tliefe were both lie
gatived.
Mr. Benson introduced a resolution to this
purport: Rel'olved by the house of reprefenti
tives of the United States in Congress aliembled
that the following amendments to the constitu
tion of the_ United States having been agreed to
by two thirds of both lioufes, be fubmittedtothe
legislatures of the several states; which when
ratified in whole or in part by three fourths of
said legislatures, ihall be valid to all intentsand
purposes as parts of said constitution. This re
iolution was referred to a committee, confiftingof
Mr. Benson, Mr. Sherman, and Mr. Sedg
wick, who were directed to arrange the fai(l a
mendments, and report.
Mr. Goodhue moved that the report of ihe
joint committee on the adjournment be made the
order of the day on Monday next: Pafled in the
affirmative.
The committee on the part of the house ap
pointed to confer with the senate on their a
mendinent to the treasury bill being calledoa
to report, Mr. Madison reported verbally,
that the committee had met and conferred upon
the subject ; that the members on the part of the
senate fla ed the reasons on which their amend
ment was founded ; which not being fatisfa&ory
to the committee on the part of the house, they
then submitted certain propositions to the com
mittee of the senate, who on their part offered
none: Mr. Madison further reportedthat it is
the opinion of the committee on the part of
the house, that it would notbebeft for the house
to recede from their disagreement.
A petition was presented from the inhabitants
of the town of Alexandria, setting forth that a
certain clause in the collection bill operates un
equally upon the citizens of that port, and pray
ing for alteration therein. Laid on the table.
Adjourned.
MONDAY, AUGUST 2\.
A memorial from the inhabitants of George Town, on Patow
mac, was introduced by Mr. Carrol, which being read, was re
fered, with a petition from the inhabitants of Alexandria, to a
committee, consisting of MelTrsCarrol, Lee, and Goodhue.
Mr. Madison prefenteda petition trom John Hurt, aChap
lain in the late Southern army, which was read and laid on
the table. . .
Mr. Fitzsimons of the committee appointed to bring in a
bill for establishing the salaries of the officers in the executive de
partments, brought in a report which was read the firft time.
The salaries proposed in the bill are as follow :
To the Secretary of the treasury. 5 -
Secretary of foreign affairs 3500
Secretary of the department of war 2500
Comptroller 2000
Auditor *s°°
Treasurer , 6°°
Register 12 6°
Superlntcndant of Indian affairs 1000
Governor of the Western Territory 1000
Afliftant to the secretary of the Treasury 1600
Chief clerk, to thefecretary of foreign as- ) g QO
fairs )
Chief clerk in the war department 6°°
The committee appointed to arrange the amendments agreed to
by the house, and to prepare a resolution as a preamble to the fame,
made report : The resolution is the fame brought in yeflerday—
which wasaccepted. The amendments as arranged were thenrea •
The order of the day on the report of the joint committee onaa
adjournment was moved for. .
Mr. Vining was opposed to taking up this report: Heo er
ved, that it appeared absurd to go into a difcuflion of the 103
at this moment —it would neceflarily involve a great deal of e alc
and loss of time, and would counteract the onjeft of gentlemen ien
tirely,while fomany important fubjefts were yet undecided, w ic
mud be attended to and finifhed, previous to a recess : Hemo\c
for a postponement, in order to take up the Treasury Bill.
Mr. Hartley obferved,that the gentleman's remarks urni
ed the best argument for coming to a determination upon.
adjournment at the present time, as it was the best way to eon
the attention of the house to the essentials, which claime
immediate notice and decision. j trk:
Mr. Sedgwick advocated taking up the report imme ia )•
He contended that it would expedite the public bufmels,
observed) his observation was founded on experience ; wne
time is once fixed, and gentlemen are fully imprefled J?
importance of dispatching business in a given time, he na k
as much tranfatted in the assembly of MafTachufetts in
and as well done as had been before in three.
served that many gentlemen were anxious to go home ,
sickly season was approaching, and that if an adjournmen
not take place, the members will be thinned off so that in *
bability a much less number than the present will be let 0
business.
Mr. Vi ni ng's motion was withdrawn. r solved,
Mr. Madison proposed the following resolution,
That when this house does adjourn on the °* '
they will adjourn to the firft Monday in December next.
Mr. Scott objected to this : He said it was too short a Extreme
it would not admit of the members who lived at t e
parts of the Union going home and returning again >
mentioned. r^toadioun'
Mr. Liver mo re also objected to it; and propote
on the First day of September. walked
Mr. Goodhue said, that he believed,that gentlemen w ,
of adjourning thefirft of September, did not wish for anya J
ment at all : He contended for a short adjournment as p
by ther efolution : Some relaxation from bufinels is nece
also expedient to consult our constituents : Some altera
be necessary in the laws wehave ena&ed : Wecanju ge . ye
that necessity from observation, and conversation in our r
States. j fiiithebl^
Mr. Ames supported the motion, and proposed to
with 22d which was carried in the affirmative. n fadiou rn '
Mr. Sumpter objetted to the shortness of the time
ment : The business now before us cannot be conl P r
if we may judge by what has already taken pla ce •' ie confult
be so short, that none of the advantages to be derive r