(Continued from Page Al)
pneone who has been successful
Itb cows. Showed successfully,
id done some judging. We still
link that’s very important ob
iously. But now we are not saying
e had to successfully show an All
merican or breed a great herd of
ows. We do need someone that
an definitely see there is a dif
p-ence in cows. He can tell
trengths and weaknesses. But the
ig difference of what we want now
i a person that can communicate.
Ke could, find a considerable
umber of people who were
ualified from the cow
ackground. That could be trained
d score cows consistently, do a
ood job. But when you put them
nder pressure. They couldn’t
ommunicate. The ability to relate
o people is really a very fine at
ribute that we want. We also want
epple that have some sales
ibiUty. Again they need to be able
o sell themselves. They need to
lell the program. We also ask them
o help us determine the needs of
lairymen.
|. How much turnover do you
ave?
L Not very much. I’m thinking in
ive years in area one and we’ve
iad anywhere from nine to 15
:lassifiers at the max. We wouldn’t
ose one classifier a year. We look
tard at prospects. We put them
hrough a much more vigorous
training program than we ever did
in the past. We try to put people in
our training program that we feel
lave an excellent chance of suc
ceeding.
Q. How has the evaluation of
dairy cattle changed over the last
20 years?
A.Today we have different
evaluation systems of cattle. On
talking about numbers or indexes,
I personally believe that it’s the
best tool we’ve ever had to rank
cows and bulls. But to some people
it’s THE tool almost as though it’s
the gospel. In fact it is not. There
are some people who say numbers
are popular because it’s so easy.
You just take the highest bull and
that’s how you breed cows. It’s sort
of like paint by the numbers. I
personally believe that it’s ac
tually more difficult to breed a
good herd of cows in today’s en
vironment than it was back when I
was at Allen Dairies. At that time
we did not necessarily put the
stress on our cattle that we do
today. We were satisfied with the
two year old who milked 14,000
then went on to live a long time.
Today we are asking our cattle to
produce a lot more milk at a
younger age. In the elevation or
the ratings for indexes, a lot of
weight is put on two year olds. One
of the reasons is Just plain
economics. You need information
quick. If you wait too long, next
thing the sire is too old and you get
a very short possibility of
production of semen from him. The
other thing, it does appear that the
general ratings on the two year
olds stand up over a period of thne.
I go back to the changes between
then and now. It’s more difficult
now just because of the fact we do
stress the young cattle. We calve in
24 months or even a little younger.
We formerly calved in 30 months.
That six month’s time is a big
difference. In addition, we are
asking our cows to milk more now.
The cow that milks more tends to
be angular. In some cases tends to
lack some substance. Breeding for
milk does not necessarily go hand
in hand with breeding for
longevity. As a matter of fact they
tend to go in two different direc
tions. I think we need to be looking
at both. That’s why I said I think
it’s more difficult now in today’s
number situation than it was back
when we didn’t ask a cow to do as
much. The reason I say that is
when you look at the bulls that are
siring the high milk, they have the
high indexes for milk, generally
their daughters are very angular.
Registered Cow Represents Blue Chip Stock
If you keep using them generation
after generation eventually you
will come to the point some time
sooner or later that you’ll have a
cow that is quite angular but too
brail. Even though she has the will
to work hard, she does not have the
body to consume large amounts of
roughage that she needs to produce
milk economically. She does not
have the strength to resist the
stresses of hot weather. She will
probably have more difficulty
calving. She might even be a little
lighter bonged. The Holstein
Associatin needs to be cognitive of
that. We need to help come up with
some more measurements and
ranking tools that show the value
of longevity. Maybe separate out
some bulls whose daughters not
only produce at young ages but
also last five or six lactations.
They get to be old cows. We have a
few cows now that we could call
disposable. In other words they’re
used once and thrown away. They
are high as a two year old but after
that it’s all downhill. Again it
comes down to the fact of what
we’d call functional type. Opposed
to what Allen Dairy used to refer to
as show type. A classifier does not
necessarily have to have a cow
that’s huge in order to go Ex
cellent. We talked about a 56” tall
cow or 1450 lb. to 1550 lb. cow. She’s
big enough. If everything else is
right, she has the potential to go
Excellent. As opposed to a cow that
may be is 1800 to 2000 lb. and
doesn’t have the angularity,
doesn’t look like she’ll work. Of
course again getting away from
size now and going to other parts of
the cow, there are two type traits
that tend to take the cow out of the
herd. Her udder and her feet and
legs. She’s got to have a good
udder. She’s got to have enough
strength, enough width of body
that there is a place for that udder.
Then she’s just got to have good
feet and legs.
Q. Are the index numbers and
type classification two separate
ways of judging a cow?
A. We do put them together in a
rating called TPI, which is Total
Performance Index. Starting
January of 1967, the TPI formula
will be two parts or 40 percent
would be pounds of butterfat, 40
percent would be pounds of protein
and 20 percent is the type of the
cow. Now some people feel maybe
there ought to be a little more
weight put on the type. I could see
down the road that we could
produce a TPI rating that would
give more weight to type.
Q. What about herd mate
evaluations versus daughter dam
evaluation?
A. Of course this is part of the
controversy today, so much weight
both for type and for production is
compared to herd mates and
perhaps not enough is given to
daughter dam considerations. This
may have some weight. But I
believe, and again I'm not a
geneticist and I’m not a
statistician, but it does appear that
there is more validity in the herd
mate evaluations Just because it
tends to wash out management. If
you look at that on one particular
farm situation it may not be true.
When you take statistics as a
whole, it is true. That doesn’t mean
that we should throw out all
daughter dam evaluations, par
ticularly I think in the area of
functional type. But I believe our
genetic advancement committee
will be taking more of a look at this
situation.
Q. You are representing the
national bolstein association, the
decentralization of the national
holstein association. How do you
functipn with the state
organization? It may be of value to
clarify how you are working in
relation to the state organization.
A. We cooperate. We have, for
instance here in Pennsylvania, a
state organization that is involved
in securing membership, offering
services, working with young
people, judging schools, and gets
involved in marketing cows. We as
a national association try hard to
assist them. The major thing I
guess we would do, would be a
reduction of cost to register a cow
if you’re a state member. And it’s
very significant. As far as the area
one office compared to Penn
sylvania Holstein Association
office in State College, we are
involved in a 14-state supervisory
situation. We happen to be here in
the Harrisburg area. We deal just
as much with people from New
York and Maryland, or New
Jersey or any of the other states. I
would have to say those people
located in New England do tend to
deal with the home office rather
than call here. We really are not
competitive. Our field staff, and
our consultants carry applications
for state membership in their cars
just as they will for the national
association. We encourage them to
do that. Another major part of our
job is the national classification
and the state’s are not involved in
classification. I do know that they
promote the program and
cooperate with us. We have the
same goals, same objectives as the
state organization does. We do get
involved in doing mating services.
At this point I don’t think any of the
state organizations are doing that.
We do market cattle. At times, in
the past, maybe we’ve been
competitive, but we don’t want it to
be that way. For instance, with the
state association here in Penn
sylvania, we cooperate with each
other, particularly in some export
orders.
Q. How do you see the Holstein
Association expanding mem
bership? Are there areas that you
can move into to make up for some
of the fanners who are going out of
business?
A. Yea. I think there are. For one,
the consultant is the one who is
going to be responsible primarily
for our growth. In years past, the
fieldman tended to visit the
established breeder. To pat him on
the back a little bit, to give him
some recognition. We still think
that’s somewhat necessary. The
established breeder basically
doesn’t need the services of our
consultants. So we have directed
the consultants to spend more time
with dairymen, be they registered
or commercial grade. Working
with dairymen who are not quite
the level of some of the people that
might come to mind as being really
successful with marketing cows.
And that’s really why you’re in
registered cows-is that you want
some marketing opportunity.
Another thing I think the
Holstein Association needs to do,
and this is personal opinion, we
need to look very hard at the grade
cow today. The unregistered cow.
The cow that isn’t at this point
eligible to be registered. Many of
those owners are excellent
managers of their herds, excellent
breeders of cattle. Some of them
are using better service sires than
some registered dairymen. They
are using off-the-top line of bulls.
Making good decisions. And
they’ve done that for generations.
We need to look very seriously at
opening a herd book in the near
future to accept some of those
cattle into the registered herd
book. I think there need to be
specifications for that. They Just
don’t open the book. I’m not saying
exactly what they should do. But I
would expect that they probably
would be identified for three, four,
five generations. Then perhaps you
would also put on certain funtional
type specification and then also
production specifications. It’s
going to take some open min
dedness of the traditional
registered breeder. But I think
some of the top grade cattle would
be an asset to us.
Q. I heard you say that basically
your place for expansion or for
Lancaster Farming, Saturday, September 20,1956-A47
even maintaining your own simply
because of the diminishing number
of farmers is in the area where you
are not just speaking through your
breed organization. You need to
reach out beyond where you are at
now.
A. We’ve been perceived by a lot
of commercial peole as being an
exclusive cattle dub. If we
maintain that perception we will
probably have no reason for
existence in the future.
Q. Where do you think the em
bryo program has taken us at this
point? And where do think it will
go?
A. That’s speculation on my part
because I probably don’t know a
whole lot more than maybe you do.
Historically what it has done for us
at this point is that it has reduced
the opportunity for some dairymen
to be involved in marketing bulls.
There are just fewer cows that can
produce more bulls. One of the
problems I think we have is some
people involved in ET work have
been spending the money and
investing the money in doing some
embryo transfers in some cows
that really don’t have any reason
to quality. Now it’s a judgement
call too. But they might be better
off going out to a sale. A lot of good
cows are getting sold now. It’s
never been a better time to get
involved with registered cows or to
upgrade your registered herd. I
think a lot of the future hedges on
two things that probably will
happen. One is higher recovery
rate of frozen embryos than what
we have now. And two more
success in nonsurgical im
plantation. I could see down the
road organizations will be selling
embryos just like they sell frozen
semen. I think that has tremen
dous possibilities for upgrading the
national herd.
Q. I’d like to talk a bit about
somanatropin from the registered
breeders point of view in relation
to records. How do you foresee the
handling of one herd who is using
some kind a stimulant to promote
production and another herd who
does not? How do we incorporate
these records and get indexes or
anything else? How do you
maintain the credibility of our
records?
A. Obviously it would be another
tool that an unethical breeder
could use to create false rankings
of a herd of cows. We’ve always
faced a few people that have an
inkling to do that.
I heard Frank Dickerson from
USDA address this subject. He
believes that statistically over
large numbers this could be
handled. And that as far as
evaluations for bull information,
there will be no problem. They’ll
be just as accurate as they ever
were. Individually, as far as an
individual cow index, you can’t use
the considerations you would over
Agway Schedules
Meet In Syracuse
SYRACUSE, N.Y. - Several
thousand farmers and guests will
gather for the 22nd annual meeting
of Agway Inc. October 23-24 at the
Onondaga County War Memorial
in Syracuse, NY.
Reports by Richard Croner,
chairman of the board of directors,
and William A. Hiller, president
and chief executive officer will be
highlights on Thursday, October
23. Six farmers will be elected by
the members present to three-year
terms on the 18-member Agway
board of directors.
A seminar on issues facing
farmers will be held Thursday
morning, October 24, at the nearby
Hotel Syracuse.
The popular Agway farm show in
large populations. There is the
possibility I could see of maybe a
little lesser weight put on your cow
index.
Q. So the unscrupulous person
would give somanatropin to the
daughters of this bull and not the
herd mates?
A. Yes. The bull stud people have
to look at this. Already today, we
have some manipulation that they
must be aware of. That’s why with
bull proofs you have the daughters
spread into large numbers of herds
that are of disinterested owner
ship.
Q. So you’re saying that in a bull
proof in a large number of herds,
some herds will using
somanotropin, some won’t be. But
the proof will be valid because of
the numbers.
A. Yes. And we are assuming
that in the herds that are using the
growth hormone, they are doing it
equally with other cattle. Ob
viously we are human people.
Some of us at times because of
economic awards, we would tend
to cheat. It does create another
tool. But someone who is inclined
to do that will do it.
Q. Because of the herd mates?
A. Yes. You’ll find that those
people will come to the surface.
They will just be ignored by the AI
organizations and other markets.
Q. If you had a chance to talk to
all of our readers at once in a
meeting, what would you tell
them?
A. I like people that are positive.
It was interesting for me just
before you came to talk to Glenn
Freeze. He is positive. Let’s look at
the good things we Have. We can be
caught up in the negatives and this
certainty has been a down phase in
the dairy industry. We all need to
look at the bottom line. But if I’m
going to to your readership, I’d say
this. There’s never been a greater
opportunity to get involved in the
registered holstein business or to
'upgrade the level of your in
volvement. The difference right
now between the commercial cow
and the registered cow is very
narrow as far as the profit margin
for milk production. But you can
now get involved in the registered
business for that second income
when you market some cows. You
need to position yourself right We
know the market is depressed right
now, not only for milk but for seed
stock cattle. When the milk
situation changes to the positive
you will correspondently see the
marketing opportunities for
registered cattle change too. It’s a
great time now to think about five
years or 10 years down the road
and get yourself in position. It’s
kind of like if you were investing in
the stock market, you buy low and
you sell high. Now if you look at the
registered cow as a blue chip
stock, it’s the time to buy.
the lower level of the War
Memorial will feature feeds, on
farm computers, new crop
varieties and crop management
programs, and other products and
services designed specifically for
Northeast farmers.
Thursday evening more than
5,000 will attend an entertainment
program “Liberty - A Salute to
America.” Friday morning, Oc
tober 24, members have an op
portunity to question senior Agway
managers on a wide variety of
topics during the free-wheeling
open forum.
Agway is owned by 101,000
farmer-members in 12' north
eastern states and is headquar
tered in Syracuse, NY.