however imperJWl'Viat moic might be, still he
Delievid, that it v.as the only one that had re
ceived the fsiivftion of experience and utility.
He tlf efure hoped, that the resolution would
be refuted, and Che mode already adopted per-
Itverol in, and the ncceOary information called
for in writing, from every perlbn any ways in
terelltd or competent to give it.
Mr. W. Smith lupported the relolridon. He
Ihewed by the report iti'elf, and from the rea
lor.iiig uled by geutlemtn in opposition to the
resolution, tnat the two secretaries were impli
cated ill the caul'es of the failure of the expediti
ng { ro in hence he inferred the julbice and pro
priety ot giving them an opportunity of excul
pating theitilelycß.
Mr- Gerry exprefled surprize at the apprehen
sion which lonic gentlemen appear to entertain
of the :n; alt. If ox introducing the heads of de
partment into the nouie; for his part he had
■ho such appreheufious. The secretary will at
tend at the orders of the house, luureiy to give
Inch information as may be retired, and not as
members or miiiiflers, to influence and govern
■the determinations ot the house.
Mr. Venable objected further to -he resoluti
on he urged the impropriety of any of the
heads of departments coming forward, ar.d at
tempting 111 any way to influence the delibera
tions ot the legislature.
Mr. lanvrance replit d to Mr. Venabie ; he
abferved that the gentleman appeared to mil
take the object of tnc resolution, it was not con
fempUted that Either of the iecretaries should
appear on the floor of the house, to influence,
lu any degree, its deciliuiMi; they are to be cal
led on merely lor information.
Mr. Murray objedted to the resolution. The
report, he observed, is made to the house—is in
the course of its difcuilion any futther light or
information ihould be deemed neceifary, it may
then be cailedfor, and in that mode which lhall
appear moil eligible—at prcfent the question ap
pears to be premature. Mr. Murray added
leveral or her remarks, and then the que (lion
being put, Mr. Wiliiamfon's rnotiou for ilriking
out was carried.
IVednefday, November 14.
Sketch of the Debate on the metion for recommitting
the Report.
Mr. Madison fuggeited that the most simple,
apd confident plan would be,
;o recommit the report of the Sele& Commit
tec, and refer the preleat application;>* to the
Committee, to whom the report&all be re-com
mitted —He therefore moved that the Commit
tee of the whole ihould he dtfeharged from con
sidering the report on the eaules of the failure
of the late expedition.—Mr. Smith (S. C.) ob
served that fevera! ohje&ions {truck him in op
pofttioa tp this motion. The House must at
some period laid he, meet this buiinefs ; if it is
recommitted, here will be an impropriety in re
ferring it to the fain Committee, if a new Com
mittee is appointed they mull begin the whole
bu/inefs de novo; and if their in veil i gat ion
should take, up such a length time as that of
the lormer committee the i'elfion will be expen
ded; and at the close of it, the business will recur
on the house, and tfie fame difcufiVon will be to
be had, that is now proposed—He hoped the
house would therefore proceed in the considera
tion of the report, aflign two or three days in
the week for the purpofc, and continue the in
vestigation till the whole is finifhed.
Mr. Giles replied, that he had no doubt that
the vouchers on which the committee had foun
ded the report would appear fuffi«ient to juftify
the decifioxis that they had made. He laid, that
he did not fuppole that the applicants would ad
duce any new information—one of them had
been called on, he attended the committee, and
he supposed that he had furniftied all the infor
mation he was in possession of. He obje&ed to a
re-commitment, as one of the committee he was
perfectly iatisfted with the report; nor did he
conceive there was any additional evidence to be
produced, except it was of a recent date.
Mr. Ames said, he perceived such a difineb-na
tion to go into the business as indicated a pro
per temper oi mind in relation to the perions
fuppoled to be any ways interefleri in the ulti
mate decilicn of the lioufc He was opposed to
* recommitment; as it would procrastinate, in
Itead ot expediting the enquiry. He adverted
to the report.—Fa els are ftatcd, the public have
been left to draw the inferences, tlie committee
have not explicitly criminated any body; but
ttiey have determined, in feverai instances, who
Moot to blame. What is the fiiuation of those
who are implicated in the cause? of the failure?
Every citizen knows, that in consequence of the
Ofue ol the expedition, clamours the
War department, inrcfpectto Indian ait'airs, have
rung through the continent, should public offi
cers, who have been placed in iituariona of such
importance be silent, andfubniit calmly to such
imputations, they would be un Worthy of puh
- I .c CUj if'dence— unworthy to breathe the vital
* Ir Ihey now apply for an opportunity to be
heard.in their own vindication. Shall they be
ent to a committee-room, and make their de
ence against the allegations b: ought forward to
t eir difad vantage, which have been published
to the world, in the hearing of perhaps ten or a
v ozen perfon.s only ?He hoped not —-he thought
jtuuee to them, and to the public required, t.iat
fjiey should b to make their dVfefire in
j-ie face of the, world. Will not precluding them
. "* lc a to smother ali further enquiry
into the bufinelb? 1 '
Mr. Bmdwm was in favour of recommitting,
e aid it was thu mofh eligible mode, and was
coni. nant to rhe pradtice of the houfl*.
Mr. Madilbn remarked that it had been said,
I portion wis di/"covered to smother the en-
Uir ' ' ll r --piy he observed, that if be wilhed to
prevent a thorough inve(ligation, helhouldbe in
avour of the who;,: bulinefs being undertaken
byjxc houle, becanie, he < blerv ed, that if a ie-
Letters of the fecrerary of war anduuarter-
;!:tTr t "° f * foWmembers seven
weeks t form income
! e o ,n ' thM
.l" : 1 ;" g'ct tl',rough the bufiuefs. He fur
~r„ T Ur l eU 'r thc ,JUIC rj * lo a lifted for
r ' _ rn '* r -fiJueof tlir evidence to a feJed
as induced the mcifure in the firil
commit:
inflance
| Mr. Frrfirn'msfaid h, was at firft in favour
jot a recommitment; but on further confilera
tmn he was convinced the houle would be able
to get through the bufincftin a (horter time tl.au
a ieleJt committee. He added several other rea
sons which induced him to be in favour of the
houie proceeding with the report.
Mr. Gerry said it appeared to him that the
only qneftion leemed to be, whether the houfc
or thfleled committee lhall efUblift the fails?
these lafis arL established by the committee
T"u n 1 5*, ve c l ual as if they were
eftaWilhed by the house? He < onceived it would
not; but should the result be acormftmn on the
part of the house, that some of the officers arc
culpable, will the house reft an impeachment on
the report of the committee ? He conceived the
house ought to found their decisions on fads as
certained by themselves. It has been laid there
is no diiference between the house and the com
mittee : If this is the cafe, does it not imply a
cerafurc by the house on certain fhara&ers? He
thought it did. It therefore becomes the house
to difcufc the report that it may be determined
on what footing it Hands. If, in the cafe of a con
tested ele<sUon the house revolted from the idea
of Submitting their judgment to fa&s fubflanti
ated by a committee, the cafe before us is of
unlpeakably greater magnitude, for thel'e and se
veral other reasons he hoped the report would
not be recommitted,
Mr. Williamfon was in favour of the motion
for recommitting ; he supported his opinion by
the uniform pra&ice of the houfc, which in eve
ry cafe where new evidence was adduced, always
provided that the new evidence should be exa
mined by the fame committee, who had original
ly brought in the report. He said if this mode
was departed from, we should find no commit
tee would bring forward a state of fa&s in fu- j
He thought it was not treating the com
mittee with proper candor to decide on their re
port in its present situation.
ture.
Mr. Sylvester observed, that the resolution
of the house at the close of the last session, that
they would take up the business early in the pre
fcut session, precluded a recommitment—he was
therefore oppoled to the motion.
Mr. Boudinot w?.s in favour of a recommit
ment, he said, if there is new evidence to be
brought forward, the house ought to wait fill
that is received and reported at the Clerk's ta
ble ; ami this he conceived ought to be done in
the usual way, by a feletSfc committee; till the
whole testimony i? completed it appeared to him
the house was not prepared to take one step in
the business.
Mr. Madison replied to Mr. Gerry's allusion
to the cafe of the contested ele&ion. He enqui
red of him whether the house itfelf went into
an investigation of fa&s in the firft inftamx ?
believed he would not fay thst tliey did.
With refpedt to the memorials, he enquired,
whether, if they had been presented at the time
of the investigation of the fubje& by ths felecft
committee, they would not have been referred
to rhe committee; if they would then have been
thus referred, the fame reason exists for referring
them to a fele& committee at theprefent time.
Mr. liawrance was of opinion, that a re-com
mitment wouM tend to a saving of time; the
committee will not he obliged to go over the
fame ground agjiin that has already been explo
red—all they wiil be obliged to do is, to invef
tigatc the new testimony which will be adduced.
He hoped therefore, that the motion would pre
vail.
Mr. Giles said, that the proceedings of the
committee were public, and that the secretaries
could have attended all the time, had they fecn
proper—They attended but once, and then ap
peared extremely anxious to get away, to attend
to their offices. The committee would have been
extremely glad to have had thofc gentlemen pre
sent oftener, and to receive all the information
they could give—and supposed they had done it.
Mr. Gerry replied to Mr. Madison; he said,
if gentlemen would recur to the proceedings of
the house on the contested ele&ion, they will
find, that the house expressly reserved to itfelf
the rights of fubilanriating the fa£s, which
should appear from an examination of the de
positions, taken in conformity t* the resolutions
of the house; and here he adverted to the mode
pointed out by the house in taking thole depo
lition.n. The adverse party was to be summoned
to attend to the taking them ; but in this re
port it appears, that exparte evidence has been
admitted as the foundation on which some of
the decifjons have been made.
Mr. Murray lupported the motioij for a re
commitment. Heobferved, that the business in
its present (late was so incomplete, that he
could not fee how the house could proceed upon
it. One part of the evidence only is finifhed,
Mid the report is made on that evidence. Now,
we are told, new testimony is offered; let the
whole be brought into view at once, and then
the house will be in a situation to judge.
Mr. Page was in favor of a further comriiit
mentor the buiinefs; but whether to the com
mittee who made the rej o t, or to a new com
mittee, he lhould not take upon him to fay.
With refpedt to the admiflion of any head of a
department to the bar of this houi'e, except in
caie of an impearhment, he would never confe'.it
to it It would be a precedent of a most dan
gerous nature, tending to a deftrudHon of all
freedom of (inquiry by committees.
Mr. Findley observed, that the committee
wiflied tbi>t Mr. Hodgdon fhouldhave been pre-,
lent, but he did not make his appearance; the
committee therefore proceeded on the testimony
they had, and as there is now new evidence
brought forward, he thought it was proper that
the report ftould be recommitted. An one of the
195
ait rin M aVC no to faeh
•nil n " 4 "; ight a PP" r F ro P cr or. further
and,nwre con,pleat invefligatfon of the business.
, Mr, steeie called,for the reading of a clause
j* the memorial of the Secretary of War, wh.eh
rates that the committee had drawn conclufiom
Iron, expirte evidence. This being read, Mr.
Steele remarked on the want of candor towards
,the committee, which had been (hewn by some
ot the members in thecourfe of their observati
ons. He then advei ted to the above claufere
pcx-nig ex parte evidence,and observed that with
itlpcft to the Secretary of War, it was not true
t nat the committee had proceeded on exparte
e\i vticc; tnat officer said he, was notified of
the meetings of the committee, he attended those
ijKep.ngs, he furnifhed the committee with pa
pers and documents, &c. ani further he was re
queued to detainofficers in town whose teftimo
»y \\ as necessary in the that he com
p ained oi lome of those officers being detained
by the delays of the committee from the recruit
ing icrvice. With refpeft to M. Hodgdon, the
ame cannot be said, as he was not then in the
country.
Mr. Steele then concluded by some addition
rerr*arks on the indelicacy manifefted by some
gentlemen in their treatment of the committee,
and obierved that he did not apply it ro himfelf
peiionally, but as it refpedted the Committee at
large he thought proper to express the contempt
whiclt he conceived it merited.
Mr. Dayton replied to Mr. Steele, he repeat
ed the ftibftance of his original remarks on the
report, and added that in the courfc of the dif
cufljon he should attempt to shew that the de
duitions madein several parts of the report were
falfe.
Mj. D 1 yton added, that whatever ;he gentle
man fall speaking might fay—as one cf the qom
iii'irre who signed the report, he was certainly
irT'plicwcd in whatever censure it merited.
1 he queflion for a recommitment was acrecd
to, 30 to iz.
Wednesday, November 14,
Mr. Grove, from North-Carolina, took
his feat tbia day.
Mr. White moved that a committee be
appointed to prepare and report a bill to
regulate trade and intereourfe with the
Indian Tribes.—Agreed to, and meflrs.
White, Glark and Williamfon, were ap
pointed.
Mr. Orr presented the petition of
praying compensation for public fer
rices : read and laid on the table.
Mr. Muhlenberg presented the petition
of Griffin Jones, praying compensation
for a quantity ofleather supplied the pub
lic: referred to the Secretary of the Trea
sury.
Mr. Dayton presented the joint petiti
on of a number of Canadian refugees : re
ferred to nielf. Dayton, Bourne, (R. I.)
and Murray.
Mr. Goodhue reported a bill providing
for the regiltering and recording of (hips
and vclFela.
j The petition ofjames Dunbar was read,
on motion, referred to meff./iTucker,
lAfhe and White.
; Mr. Fitzfimons was added to the com-
Imittee on the petition of James Warring.
<ton.
' A communication was read from the
secretary of the treasury dating an esti
mate of the appropriations requilite for
the support of government for the year
'*793-
Mr. Murray's motion for the appoint
ment of a committee to take intoconfide
ration that part of the Prelident's speech
vvhich relates to the transmission of newf
papeis, and whether any, and what alter
ations may be necefTary in the law for re
gulating the Polt-Office—was referred to
mefTrs. Murray, Baldwin, Gilman, Ames,
and Barnwell.
Mr. Lee presented the petition of Pa
trick Dougherty and Bowles, pray
ing compensation for damage fultained in
their property during the late war : read
and laid on the table.
Mr. Gerry prtfented the petition of
Mrs. Bond, widow of the Colonel Bond,
who died while in the service of the Uni
ted States during the late war : laid on
the table.
The following letter from the Secreta
ry of War, was pre fen ted arid read :
IVar Department, Nov. i." t , 1792.
SIR,
After the close of die lafl femon of
Coagrefs, I saw with much concern the
: r¥poAof the cominittee appoiuted to en
quire 'into the causes of the failur'e of the
expedition under-Major Get). St. Clair, of
tfec Bth of May, 1792, which having been
prefeiited to the house in thelaft moments
of the session, was ordered »o be printed
and has since circulated in the public
newspapers throughout the United States,
containing fuggeitions molt of them foun
ded upon ex parte invelliVation, which
have been underltood in a icufe very iuju
rions to my reputation-.
Learning that the prefentday was ap
pointed for taking into corifideration the
above-mentioned report—l luvr waited
with anxious expectation for fouie act oi
the houte enabling me to attend the piu
grcio of the examination upon which iney
are about to enter, for the purpose of fur
nithing such information and explanation*
as might conduce to a right underlUud
ing ot lacls, in which I am to materially
implicated—The failure of a pvopoGtioi
which I am informed was nude to i,io
house with that view, has auded to my li>
licitnde and regret.
I'll us lituated, I feel njyfelf called uj
on to alk of the justice of the houle that
some mode may be deviled, by whicn ii.
will be put into my power to be pttient
during the course of the intended liiquny,
as well to hear the evidence oil which the
several allegations contained in the report
are founded, as to offer the information
and explanations to which I have alluded.
1 o this (tep I am impelled by a per
fualion that an accurate and iatisiatiory
ihveftigation cannot otherwise be had
with equal advantage—if at all. And
my entire reliance upon the equity and
impartiality of the house will not permit
a doubt to exilt on my pait, that iuch an
invefligation will be exciuliveiy the object
of their desire and pursuit.
I have the honour to be, Sir,
With the highelt refpedt,
Your mod obedient humble servant,
(Signed) H. KNOX.
1 he Speaker of the honorable the
Houte of Repreleutativesof the
United States.
A letter to the fame purport from Ma
jor Hodgdou, quarter-maltei -general of
the late ariny, was presented.
i hefe being read, a motion was made
to refer them to the committee of the
whole house.
I his motion was fuperceded by a moi
tion made by Mr. Madifott, to ditcharge
the committee of the whole from the cou
lideration of the report of the lcleCt com
mittee, and that the fame, with the docu
ments relative thereto, including the me
morials of the Secretary of War and Mr.
Samuel Hodgdon, be iccommittedxo the
fame committee.
Tin's motion after a long debate wai
cartied in the affirmative.
A motion for an addition to the com
mittee was put and negatived.
THURSDAY, November 15.
Mr. Sedgwick took his feat this day.
The bill reported yesterday, providing for thi
registering and recording of fcips or veflels, wa
read the.firft and second time, and referred tos
committee of the whole, and made the order ol
the day for Monday next.
A letter was read from the Secretary of War,
conveying information refpefting Indian aii'airs
in the southern quarter, communicated pursu
ant to orders from the President of the United
States. This information was communicated
in a letter from James Seagrove, agent for the
United States to the Creek nation. The read
letter, which enclosed one from Mr.
M Gillivray, was begun, but, without being fi
nittied, was laid on the table. .
Mr. Lee moved that the petition of Henry
Bowes lhonld be referred to tiie Secretqry of
the Treasury. This petition was for compen
iation for lofles sustained during the late war.
The motion was objected to;—this occasioned
Clie calling for the reading of tiie proceedings of
Congress relative to applications of this nature;
and the report of the Secretary of the Treasury
at the last feifion, on petitions of a similar de
ftripuon with tnat now under confideratiou.
Tneie being read,
The .notion for referring the petition to the
Secretary, after l'orae converlation, was ueza,
tived. - "
Mr. Lee then moved that the documents ac
companying the petition Ihould be read : They
were read accordingly. A motion was then
made tor referring the petition to a select com
inittee—which was negatived^
On motion of Mr. Orr, the petition of Richard
Clunworth was referred to a (cleft committee,
conlilhng of Mess Hartley, Greenup 1- Gordon.
1 he petition ot Giitord Dally, door-keeper to
the house, praying compenlatsc i for extra ier
vices, was re.:d and laid 011 the table.
J he reading of the confidential papers being
re fumed, the galleries were ihut.
FRIDAY, Nov. 16.
After reading the journal of yeftcrday's pro
ceedings, a minion being made to rcfuine the
reading o* the private papers, the galleries were
doled, it wa» fuppoled the reading would be
finilhed this day.
To the Public.
THE fubfcrihc*"h£gs leave to acquaint (hp puh-
Jic in general, ar»d his cuftotners in particu*
Jar, rh«jt he has entered into partncifhip witn
|Mr. HENRY KAMMERER, and thai the Prinu
juig bufiwfs in the ICrjt> 11(h and German
is now carnrd on under the firm o\ STEINER
and KAMMhRER, No. 85, in Race-street, bt*
twrcn Second and Thii d-(lioe v .s.
, The Ge»nun Newfp-iper will be published by*
them, .is uludl, on TueMsys, and all kind of Prjn; ;
irtg work, done wiih care an'i expedition.
MELCHJOR STEINSR*
A'<2:v£, : 792.
Adjourned.